Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Apr 24, 2017, 12:32 pm
#811
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The rest of the world rarely uses Apple Pay for their transactions, unlike here. The U.S. was the first to get Apple Pay and the first to achieve widespread adoption on the merchants' side. Not to be rude, but if you really are not pleased with living in the U.S., I kindly suggest you to renounce your American citizenship and leave this country. The fact is, every region does payments a little differently and America is part of that norm.
Going back on topic, I did a successful EMV contactless transaction at Safeway yesterday using my Costco Citi card. I initially thought that Safeway had no contactless support, at least at the one near me. I was pleasantly surprised since I just held my card over the terminal and it worked (no mentioning of contactless or its logo was present). Perhaps Safeway is getting ready to trial EMV contactless support?
Going back on topic, I did a successful EMV contactless transaction at Safeway yesterday using my Costco Citi card. I initially thought that Safeway had no contactless support, at least at the one near me. I was pleasantly surprised since I just held my card over the terminal and it worked (no mentioning of contactless or its logo was present). Perhaps Safeway is getting ready to trial EMV contactless support?
So instead of being allowed to voice my opinion and be enthusiastic about this country changing for the better, you suggest I move? I don't think so.
Apr 24, 2017, 12:35 pm
#812
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Could be Samsung has an exclusive partnership agreement with that particular merchant, even though you should be able to use any type of mobile payment (or contactless card) if the terminal supports it.
Apr 24, 2017, 12:36 pm
#813
Join Date: Oct 2014
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Cayan terminals for the most part support all payment types you can throw at it, including QR code!
Apr 24, 2017, 12:41 pm
#814
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Nope. In fact those stickers came to me in a Samsung Pay promo pack that the merchant ordered. So more than likely the merchant did this because he either is a big Samsung guy or the other stickers didn't come yet.
Cayan terminals for the most part support all payment types you can throw at it, including QR code!
Cayan terminals for the most part support all payment types you can throw at it, including QR code!
Apr 24, 2017, 12:55 pm
#815
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Not to sound rude at all, but what is this "widespread adoption" you're talking about on the merchants side? Last time I checked, the U.S was far, far behind on the contactless adoption rate. You can pretty much use NFC anywhere (either on your card or through your phone) in other first world countries who we should be on "par" with. We're completely backwards here, but hey, believe what you want.
So instead of being allowed to voice my opinion and be enthusiastic about this country changing for the better, you suggest I move? I don't think so.
So instead of being allowed to voice my opinion and be enthusiastic about this country changing for the better, you suggest I move? I don't think so.
Also, I don't know about you but I just used contactless to pay for lunch. Maybe it's not going as fast as we'd like but it is happening. Plus at least there's no contactless limit (unlike elsewhere).
I think Samsung has tried the hardest to get mobile payments to work... Adopting MST for less resistance, packing stickers in with equipment (you have to order Apple Pay stickers as far as I know), and having a rewards system tied to using their mobile payment method makes me respect them quite a bit.
Apr 24, 2017, 12:58 pm
#816
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On that note, PAX does seem to be pretty common among food service. And doesn't seem to waive CVM that I've ever seen (possibly because of tipping, despite entering it before tapping today).
Apr 24, 2017, 1:27 pm
#817
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That's because the U.S isn't structured to accept widespread contactless payments. Think about it... Why do other countries have the limits they do? To prevent fraud because contactless doesn't require a signature or PIN there... The way it should be. Instead we have to stop and sign, which makes contactless pointless as it's meant to be a tap and go procedure.
Yes, the limit is still there in other countries, even with fingerprint authenticated Apple Pay transactions, but I think stopping to sign after a contactless transaction is worse than having a 30 pound limit or whatever on the transactions that are allowed via NFC.
Yes, the limit is still there in other countries, even with fingerprint authenticated Apple Pay transactions, but I think stopping to sign after a contactless transaction is worse than having a 30 pound limit or whatever on the transactions that are allowed via NFC.
Apr 24, 2017, 1:44 pm
#818
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I've been seeing a huge number of Pax S80s in food service, particularly in Chinese restaurants.
Apr 24, 2017, 2:00 pm
#819
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
That's because the U.S isn't structured to accept widespread contactless payments. Think about it... Why do other countries have the limits they do? To prevent fraud because contactless doesn't require a signature or PIN there... The way it should be. Instead we have to stop and sign, which makes contactless pointless as it's meant to be a tap and go procedure.
Yes, the limit is still there in other countries, even with fingerprint authenticated Apple Pay transactions, but I think stopping to sign after a contactless transaction is worse than having a 30 pound limit or whatever on the transactions that are allowed via NFC.
Yes, the limit is still there in other countries, even with fingerprint authenticated Apple Pay transactions, but I think stopping to sign after a contactless transaction is worse than having a 30 pound limit or whatever on the transactions that are allowed via NFC.
Apple Pay still being subject to the tap limit is due solely to the slow adoption of CDCVM. And here in the States, we generally have a signature waiver in place for credit cards.
Apr 24, 2017, 2:09 pm
#820
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Signature isn't that bad. I usually just draw a line and go on my way unless I come across a cashier-turned-vigilante. The limit also exists in Europe (although not primarily) because it would look so bad on Visa to go from chip w/ PIN for even 55p to tap and No CVM for a hundred quid.
Apple Pay still being subject to the tap limit is due solely to the slow adoption of CDCVM. And here in the States, we generally have a signature waiver in place for credit cards.
Apple Pay still being subject to the tap limit is due solely to the slow adoption of CDCVM. And here in the States, we generally have a signature waiver in place for credit cards.
Example: If I'm buying a coffee, I should just be able to tap my card, take the coffee, and go. With some places here you may have to stop and sign, and then at that point, you may wonder why you even bothered with technology that isn't used the way it's meant to be used.
Apr 24, 2017, 2:16 pm
#821
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Some (not all) countries have contactless limits for at least one of two reasons:
Sounds like perhaps they finally got certification for their terminals? I usually see the S300 attached to a POS the most often, although I've seen a few S80s too.
It's still faster than EMV.
- Their primary CVM is offline PIN (which isn't practical on contactless for obvious reasons).
- Contactless runs offline either most or all the time.
You still have to stop, though.
Example: If I'm buying a coffee, I should just be able to tap my card, take the coffee, and go. With some places here you may have to stop and sign, and then at that point, you may wonder why you even bothered with technology that isn't used the way it's meant to be used.
Example: If I'm buying a coffee, I should just be able to tap my card, take the coffee, and go. With some places here you may have to stop and sign, and then at that point, you may wonder why you even bothered with technology that isn't used the way it's meant to be used.
Apr 24, 2017, 5:49 pm
#822
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
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Stopped by a Shell station in Essex, CT this past weekend. They have MX915s inside with some odd software. The screens are labeled on the bottom right corner. I don't remember all of the labels, but when a card is inserted, the screen is labeled EMV_Wait. My Amex processed as EMV. Apple Pay did not work although the clerk was somewhat knowledgeable about it and let me try. He said that Android Pay seems to work on and off, but he's never seen Apple Pay work yet.
Apr 24, 2017, 6:12 pm
#823
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Stopped by a Shell station in Essex, CT this past weekend. They have MX915s inside with some odd software. The screens are labeled on the bottom right corner. I don't remember all of the labels, but when a card is inserted, the screen is labeled EMV_Wait. My Amex processed as EMV. Apple Pay did not work although the clerk was somewhat knowledgeable about it and let me try. He said that Android Pay seems to work on and off, but he's never seen Apple Pay work yet.
Apr 25, 2017, 1:07 am
#824
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Apr 25, 2017, 5:06 am
#825
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
I saw Chase Pay in action at the Bux for the first time just now.
