Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Apr 22, 2017, 9:04 pm
#781
Join Date: Mar 2017
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It doesn't help when you have millennial cashiers who don't even know what Apple Pay is. I blame Apple for the short fall there... You would think they'd advertise it more on TV. I don't even remember the last time I've seen an Apple Pay commercial, but I guess that's what we get when they let a loser run the company.
Last edited by mikesyr18; Apr 22, 2017 at 9:10 pm
Apr 22, 2017, 9:14 pm
#782
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
1. McDonald's did their part IMO: their door stickers list accepted tender (including contactless, Apple Pay, and Android Pay), and I'm sure they sent the memo that customers can swipe/insert their cards and tap their phones, with cashiers only having to press credit/debit. Despite that, it's not a crucial part of the cashier's job to know the names of different payment services customers can use. I just say I'm paying by credit/debit and tap my phone when the card reader is ready.
2. It only says that when the terminal is idle. They cannot show the contactless logo when idle if they do not have pre-tap. When ready for payment, it says to insert, swipe, or tap. It's not a big deal, anyway - if I can pay how I like without a problem, then what's there to fuss about?
Gotta love projection.
Apr 22, 2017, 9:18 pm
#783
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Hardware-wise, that's true. No comment on training; last time I bought something from McDonald's was years ago, and I used a kiosk today anyway.
1. McDonald's did their part IMO: their door stickers list accepted tender (including contactless, Apple Pay, and Android Pay), and I'm sure they sent the memo that customers can swipe/insert their cards and tap their phones, with cashiers only having to press credit/debit. Despite that, it's not a crucial part of the cashier's job to know the names of different payment services customers can use. I just say I'm paying by credit/debit and tap my phone when the card reader is ready.
2. It only says that when the terminal is idle. They cannot show the contactless logo when idle if they do not have pre-tap. When ready for payment, it says to insert, swipe, or tap.
Gotta love projection.
1. McDonald's did their part IMO: their door stickers list accepted tender (including contactless, Apple Pay, and Android Pay), and I'm sure they sent the memo that customers can swipe/insert their cards and tap their phones, with cashiers only having to press credit/debit. Despite that, it's not a crucial part of the cashier's job to know the names of different payment services customers can use. I just say I'm paying by credit/debit and tap my phone when the card reader is ready.
2. It only says that when the terminal is idle. They cannot show the contactless logo when idle if they do not have pre-tap. When ready for payment, it says to insert, swipe, or tap.
Gotta love projection.
At my McDonalds it doesn't say insert, swipe, or tap-- it just says insert or swipe card. Even then there should be a large NFC logo on the screen because that makes it easier for everyone trying to pay.
Apr 22, 2017, 9:30 pm
#784
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
I don't think they've ever did any of #1 , except for showing them they how customers should be inserting their cards on the bottom of the terminal. A cashier should simply know they take contactless payments there... Not so much the names of each contactless payment technology, I agree. At a place like that, the machine should always be online when a new order is started.
At my McDonalds it doesn't say insert, swipe, or tap-- it just says insert or swipe card. Even then there should be a large NFC logo on the screen because that makes it easier for everyone trying to pay.
At my McDonalds it doesn't say insert, swipe, or tap-- it just says insert or swipe card. Even then there should be a large NFC logo on the screen because that makes it easier for everyone trying to pay.
Maybe a "Please wait for cashier" would suffice. It doesn't really make much of a difference, though, if they don't have Quick Chip. The card would just sit there for a bit anyway.
At least for the kiosk, it mentioned nothing when idle and all three when active. If the tills don't mention contactless at all, then I agree it should be changed. Giant/Stop & Shop also don't mention contactless on-screen anymore, but instead they have paper signage all over the place for it.
Apr 22, 2017, 10:03 pm
#785
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I'm honestly more surprised that they didn't get MX915s so they could do signature capture.
I don't see how saturating the airwaves with ads when only a third of stores (at best) accept it would end well for Apple.
Apr 22, 2017, 10:44 pm
#786
Original Poster
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At El Pollo Loco, I had to try a second time (Chase Visa) before it would work.
I'm heading to London soon, but can't find report since late 2015. Would my iPhone work on TfL with US-issued Visa? Would it then work on a second try?
I'm heading to London soon, but can't find report since late 2015. Would my iPhone work on TfL with US-issued Visa? Would it then work on a second try?
Apr 22, 2017, 10:54 pm
#787
Join Date: Mar 2017
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If the banks and Apple team up together and push it more, merchants will cave and install/fix the issues that annoy myself and other customers. I get tired of seeing merchants only looking out for themselves... Treat you employees and customers with respect for a change.
Apr 22, 2017, 10:54 pm
#788
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
Amongst US-issued cards, you can use a physical Amex or a physical/virtual MasterCard for contactless on TfL. Visa and virtual Amex will be rejected.
Apr 22, 2017, 11:15 pm
#789
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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The contactless feature on my Diners Club card is MSD only so I'm not sure it's a given that physical contactless Mastercards will work.
Apr 23, 2017, 12:06 am
#790
Join Date: Jan 2005
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Data point: my US-issued contactless HSBC MC worked on TfL, both the physical card and on ApplePay.
Apr 23, 2017, 12:27 am
#791
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Apr 23, 2017, 11:30 am
#792
Join Date: Jul 2009
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There are a few restaurants/quick serve places I've visited that have the tip and signature lines but don't require a signature. I've just been presented a receipt showing "Check Closed" at the bottom or a customer copy with the tip and signature lines. I've never had a problem, but I wonder what my recourse would be if there were a discrepancy between the amount billed and the settled amount. I believe tips are only authorized up to 20% beyond the base amount?
Apr 23, 2017, 12:17 pm
#793
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 150
The more consumers you educate about the payment method, the more they'll be willing to use it. If stores continuously tell consumers they don't accept Apple Pay, have NFC but it doesn't work correctly for some reason, or cashiers that are again, clueless... Perhaps consumers will start shaking their fists at merchants that don't comply. If you're the company who came up with the idea but sit back and lazily see if it'll develop, good luck, because Americans are too lazy and hesitant to try anything the rest of the world does.
If the banks and Apple team up together and push it more, merchants will cave and install/fix the issues that annoy myself and other customers. I get tired of seeing merchants only looking out for themselves... Treat you employees and customers with respect for a change.
If the banks and Apple team up together and push it more, merchants will cave and install/fix the issues that annoy myself and other customers. I get tired of seeing merchants only looking out for themselves... Treat you employees and customers with respect for a change.
Going back on topic, I did a successful EMV contactless transaction at Safeway yesterday using my Costco Citi card. I initially thought that Safeway had no contactless support, at least at the one near me. I was pleasantly surprised since I just held my card over the terminal and it worked (no mentioning of contactless or its logo was present). Perhaps Safeway is getting ready to trial EMV contactless support?
Last edited by Tyler2017; Apr 23, 2017 at 12:25 pm
Apr 23, 2017, 12:39 pm
#794
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There are a few restaurants/quick serve places I've visited that have the tip and signature lines but don't require a signature. I've just been presented a receipt showing "Check Closed" at the bottom or a customer copy with the tip and signature lines. I've never had a problem, but I wonder what my recourse would be if there were a discrepancy between the amount billed and the settled amount. I believe tips are only authorized up to 20% beyond the base amount?
Also, per the Visa rules document that I have here, the restaurant doesn't have to submit an additional authorization if the tip is <=20%. The other networks are likely similar.
Apr 23, 2017, 12:42 pm
#795
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
The rest of the world rarely uses Apple Pay for their transactions, unlike here. The U.S. was the first to get Apple Pay and the first to achieve widespread adoption on the merchants' side. Not to be rude, but if you really are not pleased with living in the U.S., I kindly suggest you to renounce your American citizenship and leave this country. The fact is, every region does payments a little differently and America is part of that norm.
Going back on topic, I did a successful EMV contactless transaction at Safeway yesterday using my Costco Citi card. I initially thought that Safeway had no contactless support, at least at the one near me. I was pleasantly surprised since I just held my card over the terminal and it worked (no mentioning of contactless or its logo was present). Perhaps Safeway is getting ready to trial EMV contactless support?
Going back on topic, I did a successful EMV contactless transaction at Safeway yesterday using my Costco Citi card. I initially thought that Safeway had no contactless support, at least at the one near me. I was pleasantly surprised since I just held my card over the terminal and it worked (no mentioning of contactless or its logo was present). Perhaps Safeway is getting ready to trial EMV contactless support?