Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Oct 9, 2019, 11:56 pm
#7246
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Arco is using Verifone registers. I think there are no successful reports of those registers successfully processing EMV on gas pumps yet. Also not sure we've seen those cash registers process an EMV Contactless transaction inside, either... So far we have just seen Radiant (Speedway), Toshiba (Kroger and Safeway), and a number of random Gilbarco cash register using gas stations get the EMV going at the pump.
Safeway's pumps that are processing the EMV in my area are 14+ years old, with an attachment to allow for the EMV to work.
Despite what many station owners are being told, they do not need brand new pumps to do EMV.
Safeway's pumps that are processing the EMV in my area are 14+ years old, with an attachment to allow for the EMV to work.
Despite what many station owners are being told, they do not need brand new pumps to do EMV.
Oct 10, 2019, 2:25 am
#7247
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Also, there are some (like Chevron) that are apparently standardizing on one setup. This very well may be forcing replacements too.
Oct 10, 2019, 7:08 am
#7248
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: DL(PM), UA(Silver), AA(EXP) Marriott(Ti), HH(Gold), Hertz(PC)
Posts: 2,667
Oct 10, 2019, 9:30 am
#7249
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 49
If you want to see it in action here's a video someone made of it in Tokyo:
Oct 10, 2019, 8:34 pm
#7250
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 557
I haven't used Samsung Pay, but that sounds slower than a Apple Pay with Express Transit enabled. If the OMNY readers weren't so low I'd probably be able to get through a turnstile with my iPhone as quickly as with a Metrocard. Unscientific measurements of course.
If you want to see it in action here's a video someone made of it in Tokyo: https://youtu.be/kU5l4xDE8QI
If you want to see it in action here's a video someone made of it in Tokyo: https://youtu.be/kU5l4xDE8QI
It is actually faster than they showed here, since he pauses to show you the Apple Pay completion mark - you can actually walk through the turnstile while simultaneously tapping without even slowing down. It's amazing how fast it works.
Oct 11, 2019, 7:14 am
#7251
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 182
I haven't used Samsung Pay, but that sounds slower than a Apple Pay with Express Transit enabled. If the OMNY readers weren't so low I'd probably be able to get through a turnstile with my iPhone as quickly as with a Metrocard. Unscientific measurements of course.
If you want to see it in action here's a video someone made of it in TokyoI
If you want to see it in action here's a video someone made of it in TokyoI
Oct 11, 2019, 3:30 pm
#7252
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
For others who live in Arizona or have similar lottery machines here’s a fun experiment. The Arizona lottery has machines that take everything, EMV and NFC. But here’s the kicker, it uses the merchant’s merchant account.
So i used contactless at these machines for scratchers. It works perfect at Safeway. Statements will say Safeway as if you were buying anything else.
The true test comes with Kroger and Walmart. They decline contactless despite giving you the option. A ha, because it uses the merchant’s own processor!!
So i used contactless at these machines for scratchers. It works perfect at Safeway. Statements will say Safeway as if you were buying anything else.
The true test comes with Kroger and Walmart. They decline contactless despite giving you the option. A ha, because it uses the merchant’s own processor!!
Oct 11, 2019, 6:41 pm
#7253
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,133
For others who live in Arizona or have similar lottery machines here’s a fun experiment. The Arizona lottery has machines that take everything, EMV and NFC. But here’s the kicker, it uses the merchant’s merchant account.
So i used contactless at these machines for scratchers. It works perfect at Safeway. Statements will say Safeway as if you were buying anything else.
The true test comes with Kroger and Walmart. They decline contactless despite giving you the option. A ha, because it uses the merchant’s own processor!!
So i used contactless at these machines for scratchers. It works perfect at Safeway. Statements will say Safeway as if you were buying anything else.
The true test comes with Kroger and Walmart. They decline contactless despite giving you the option. A ha, because it uses the merchant’s own processor!!
Oct 11, 2019, 7:10 pm
#7254
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I noticed someone try to tap a card to get out of the mall's parking structure today. I'm not sure if it was a contactless credit/debit card or one of the employee passes the mall offers (though I'm thinking former as I also saw inserting happening).
Anyway, while I was waiting for that person to get their card/ticket to read, I was thinking--why not let people tap their cards on the way into the mall (instead of getting a ticket)? It could preauthorize the maximum daily parking rate ($15, IIRC) or even authorize offline if the card can do fDDA. On exit (maybe without having to tap again as this mall has license plate scanners too), the system could either refund the unused portion (possibly all $15 since the first 2 hours are free) or actually submit the charge. Of course, there's probably some technical/logistical reason why that can't happen*.
* The movie theater and a few stores/restaurants will validate for an additional hour of free parking, so there'd likely still need to be a mechanism to print/scan tickets.
Anyway, while I was waiting for that person to get their card/ticket to read, I was thinking--why not let people tap their cards on the way into the mall (instead of getting a ticket)? It could preauthorize the maximum daily parking rate ($15, IIRC) or even authorize offline if the card can do fDDA. On exit (maybe without having to tap again as this mall has license plate scanners too), the system could either refund the unused portion (possibly all $15 since the first 2 hours are free) or actually submit the charge. Of course, there's probably some technical/logistical reason why that can't happen*.
* The movie theater and a few stores/restaurants will validate for an additional hour of free parking, so there'd likely still need to be a mechanism to print/scan tickets.
Oct 11, 2019, 10:07 pm
#7255
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,060
I went back to my optometrist's office today. This time my eyes were dilated, so I could clearly read the screen. Their setup is an iSC 250 on the desk that's connected to one of the office computers where they can pull up records, submit insurance claims, etc. The technician was willing to help me try to get contactless to work, but we were unsuccessful. The first tap resulted in CARD READ ERROR. The technician pressed cancel, and I tried again. This time it beeped but then the payment froze. I logged into Chase, and a pending transaction hadn't hit the account yet. She reset the system, and we tried a third time. This time it said DECLINED. Trying to insert after for a forth time caused the system to freeze a second time, probably similar to the failed contactless payment. She said another patient came in and wanted to get a mobile payment to work and non of the cards in her mobile wallet would work either. She said that every once in awhile a mobile payment will work, but she hasn't figured out a pattern yet.
Oct 11, 2019, 10:50 pm
#7256
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I went back to my optometrist's office today. This time my eyes were dilated, so I could clearly read the screen. Their setup is an iSC 250 on the desk that's connected to one of the office computers where they can pull up records, submit insurance claims, etc. The technician was willing to help me try to get contactless to work, but we were unsuccessful. The first tap resulted in CARD READ ERROR. The technician pressed cancel, and I tried again. This time it beeped but then the payment froze. I logged into Chase, and a pending transaction hadn't hit the account yet. She reset the system, and we tried a third time. This time it said DECLINED. Trying to insert after for a forth time caused the system to freeze a second time, probably similar to the failed contactless payment. She said another patient came in and wanted to get a mobile payment to work and non of the cards in her mobile wallet would work either. She said that every once in awhile a mobile payment will work, but she hasn't figured out a pattern yet.
Oct 11, 2019, 10:54 pm
#7257
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
BTW, I went to Chipotle tonight and managed to get a glimpse of the VX820's display. The contactless logo was on it, as well as the rectangles on the top indicating the contactless lights (but I couldn't tell if the leftmost one was green or not). It also looks like the terminal activates by default for cards and needs to be canceled out in order to pay in cash--much like what iGuestPay at my workplace does.
Anyway, maybe I'll ask about it next time (especially when there's no one behind me). I don't normally go there often so it might very well be at all of them by the time I go back.
Anyway, maybe I'll ask about it next time (especially when there's no one behind me). I don't normally go there often so it might very well be at all of them by the time I go back.
Oct 12, 2019, 12:17 am
#7258
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: AA, WN, UA, Bonvoy, Hertz
Posts: 2,491
At SNA airport parking, they support where you can not use the ticket to track your time in the lot, but just use the same payment card at entry/exit (which will then calculate the total cost). I don't believe they support tap as yet as a method, but there is nothing in the framework to prohibit it. I am unsure on the permission on storing the card number, but this should be coming more often.
Oct 12, 2019, 3:29 pm
#7259
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,513
I noticed someone try to tap a card to get out of the mall's parking structure today. I'm not sure if it was a contactless credit/debit card or one of the employee passes the mall offers (though I'm thinking former as I also saw inserting happening).
Anyway, while I was waiting for that person to get their card/ticket to read, I was thinking--why not let people tap their cards on the way into the mall (instead of getting a ticket)? It could preauthorize the maximum daily parking rate ($15, IIRC) or even authorize offline if the card can do fDDA. On exit (maybe without having to tap again as this mall has license plate scanners too), the system could either refund the unused portion (possibly all $15 since the first 2 hours are free) or actually submit the charge. Of course, there's probably some technical/logistical reason why that can't happen*.
* The movie theater and a few stores/restaurants will validate for an additional hour of free parking, so there'd likely still need to be a mechanism to print/scan tickets.
Anyway, while I was waiting for that person to get their card/ticket to read, I was thinking--why not let people tap their cards on the way into the mall (instead of getting a ticket)? It could preauthorize the maximum daily parking rate ($15, IIRC) or even authorize offline if the card can do fDDA. On exit (maybe without having to tap again as this mall has license plate scanners too), the system could either refund the unused portion (possibly all $15 since the first 2 hours are free) or actually submit the charge. Of course, there's probably some technical/logistical reason why that can't happen*.
* The movie theater and a few stores/restaurants will validate for an additional hour of free parking, so there'd likely still need to be a mechanism to print/scan tickets.
Oct 12, 2019, 5:26 pm
#7260
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Interesting. I wonder if it'll ever be a thing in the US. (A fair number of merchants still seem distrusting of chip here--as evidenced by comments in the other thread about PIN preferring cards still needing ZIP code at gas pumps--so I'm not sure.)