Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Sep 26, 2019, 1:00 am
#7172
Join Date: Oct 2014
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Speaking of contactless support, do you think 80% of merchants supporting it in a year is possible/likely? (Source.)
Sep 26, 2019, 3:05 am
#7173
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: San Diego, CA
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So it turns out that the Chase ATMs now print the Visa AID when you use Apple or Google Pay with their debit card. I'm fairly sure they used the common AID when inserting before, so I'm not sure what's up there. I also don't think an AID printed before when tapping but I could be remembering wrong. Perhaps they're getting close to enabling contactless for everything?
Regardless, the ATM otherwise behaves the same as before. That is:
- Non-Visa with Google Pay just causes the ATM to beep three times and otherwise do nothing.
- Chase contactless credit cards also cause a smaller number of beeps and otherwise do nothing.
- Schwab Visa (and presumably all other Visa debit cards) with Google Pay produced a "not supported" error message on the display.
Sep 26, 2019, 8:42 am
#7174
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Speaking of contactless support, do you think 80% of merchants supporting it in a year is possible/likely? (Source.)
Sep 26, 2019, 9:17 am
#7175
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FWIW, Toast does seem to be pushing their tablet fairly hard as I'm slowly seeing that become more common. Too bad it has no contactless hardware in it (unless the tablet it's made from has built-in NFC or something, which seems unlikely).
Sep 26, 2019, 2:45 pm
#7176
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
Speaking of contactless support, do you think 80% of merchants supporting it in a year is possible/likely? (Source.)
I am seeing more of the smaller retailers going with Clover so more contactless support there. I am still using Samsung Pay at the big 3 grocery stores here though.
Burger King and Wendys still have sporadic contactless support as well.
Sep 26, 2019, 2:57 pm
#7177
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Interesting. So, either that page doesn't get updated very often and/or a fair number of gas stations have likely slipped their outdoor EMV timelines (which doesn't bode well for the 2020 liability shift).
Also something interesting: most Taco Bells around here still haven't shown up on the MC map. (They do show up in the Google Pay app though and contactless is usable.) I'm fairly sure the map's been updating monthly for the last few months but it's been getting harder to figure out which places newly enable contactless. Has anyone else noticed similar?
Also something interesting: most Taco Bells around here still haven't shown up on the MC map. (They do show up in the Google Pay app though and contactless is usable.) I'm fairly sure the map's been updating monthly for the last few months but it's been getting harder to figure out which places newly enable contactless. Has anyone else noticed similar?
Sep 26, 2019, 4:12 pm
#7178
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No way. In ATL metro, Wal-Mart and Kroger are still the biggest hold outs on the grocery side. The other stores (Publix, Sprouts, Target, Whole Foods, The Fresh Market are all smaller)
I am seeing more of the smaller retailers going with Clover so more contactless support there. I am still using Samsung Pay at the big 3 grocery stores here though.
Burger King and Wendys still have sporadic contactless support as well.
I am seeing more of the smaller retailers going with Clover so more contactless support there. I am still using Samsung Pay at the big 3 grocery stores here though.
Burger King and Wendys still have sporadic contactless support as well.
As for the original question, considering that supposedly ~75% of EMV enabled locations have contactless and 80% of merchant locations have EMV (per Visa), a jump from 60% (.75*.8) to 80% isn't completely out of the question. I'm not sure who would have to get on board for that to happen, though; even if all of the remaining EMV holdouts get on board with EMV (unlikely), we wouldn't get there.
I feel like my local Chick-fil-A appeared for a few months and then disappeared.
Sep 26, 2019, 4:13 pm
#7179
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So this might be India only, but just in case it isn't: https://www.androidauthority.com/oneplus-pay-1034000/
Sep 27, 2019, 10:27 am
#7180
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
Interesting experience at my vet this morning. I’ve had problems with Amex Apple Pay there in the past but have been using Visa Apple Pay for a while there now without issue. Handed over my contactless Bonvoy Amex this time. First she inserted and then it failed, she said they have to manually enter Amex cards and didn’t see the logo at first (I guess their terminal doesn’t have the Amex AID loaded). She went to hand key it (or maybe swipe?) but the NFC sensor read the card and the transaction went through as MSD contactless (I don’t think they have EMV contactless enabled at all; my Apple Pay Visa transactions go though MSD as well). I suspect she’ll be looking for the contactless logo at least on Amex cards (I mentioned Chase and Citi were pushing it out too) since tapping is certainly easier than hand-keying the card number.
Sep 27, 2019, 11:54 pm
#7181
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Posts: 2,495
80
No way. In ATL metro, Wal-Mart and Kroger are still the biggest hold outs on the grocery side. The other stores (Publix, Sprouts, Target, Whole Foods, The Fresh Market are all smaller)
I am seeing more of the smaller retailers going with Clover so more contactless support there. I am still using Samsung Pay at the big 3 grocery stores here though.
Burger King and Wendys still have sporadic contactless support as well.
I am seeing more of the smaller retailers going with Clover so more contactless support there. I am still using Samsung Pay at the big 3 grocery stores here though.
Burger King and Wendys still have sporadic contactless support as well.
Sep 28, 2019, 12:12 am
#7182
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Speaking of 80%: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/27/s...-payments.html
Ultimately, a 100% wallet-free life is probably infeasible right now, but it’s certainly more seamless than it was even a few years ago. At the very least, a week without it proved that most of its contents are extraneous. After this, I’ll streamline down to just my driver’s license and one physical credit card to use at Luddite retailers, since everything else is being stored on my phone.
Sep 28, 2019, 4:24 am
#7183
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
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Speaking of 80%: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/27/s...-payments.html
At the cashier a terminal was available but it was labelled "no paywave", which a minority of card terminals in this part of the country are. I reached for my breast pocket but was surprised I couldn't unzip my new jacket's waterproof zipper.
The staff have to wait while I sat down at a bench, took of my jacket and the stuff I had on top like my towbelt and try to work the zipper for 10 minutes.
Sep 28, 2019, 2:22 pm
#7184
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
Interesting experience at my vet this morning. I’ve had problems with Amex Apple Pay there in the past but have been using Visa Apple Pay for a while there now without issue. Handed over my contactless Bonvoy Amex this time. First she inserted and then it failed, she said they have to manually enter Amex cards and didn’t see the logo at first (I guess their terminal doesn’t have the Amex AID loaded). She went to hand key it (or maybe swipe?) but the NFC sensor read the card and the transaction went through as MSD contactless (I don’t think they have EMV contactless enabled at all; my Apple Pay Visa transactions go though MSD as well). I suspect she’ll be looking for the contactless logo at least on Amex cards (I mentioned Chase and Citi were pushing it out too) since tapping is certainly easier than hand-keying the card number.
Sep 28, 2019, 3:39 pm
#7185
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Speaking of no wallet digital payments, I got tripped up at a ski slope in NZ this afternoon. Payment for ski pass was strangely at the top of the slope. I had my Google Pay-enabled phone in my pants pocket but zipped up my card in my new ski jacket breast pocket.
At the cashier a terminal was available but it was labelled "no paywave", which a minority of card terminals in this part of the country are. I reached for my breast pocket but was surprised I couldn't unzip my new jacket's waterproof zipper.
The staff have to wait while I sat down at a bench, took of my jacket and the stuff I had on top like my towbelt and try to work the zipper for 10 minutes.
At the cashier a terminal was available but it was labelled "no paywave", which a minority of card terminals in this part of the country are. I reached for my breast pocket but was surprised I couldn't unzip my new jacket's waterproof zipper.
The staff have to wait while I sat down at a bench, took of my jacket and the stuff I had on top like my towbelt and try to work the zipper for 10 minutes.