Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Jun 5, 2019, 9:18 am
#6391
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
San Francisco contends businesses may also comply with the law by posting signs near the cash registers listing the prices of all their items.
Jun 5, 2019, 1:23 pm
#6392
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Just tried to tap my CSR at this Korean restaurant in my local mall (previously, they were EMV/swipe only and using the VX820; there were no changes to the hardware since I was last there). I got a "limit exceeded / please retry" error. Apparently it's a known issue according to the cashier and that "a lot of people" were trying to tap their cards. FWIW, anyway.
Interestingly they just opened another location in another area mall and it looks like they use Square there. So maybe POS setup is a franchisee decision or something, assuming they franchise.
EDIT: only 7 locations, so probably not franchised.
Interestingly they just opened another location in another area mall and it looks like they use Square there. So maybe POS setup is a franchisee decision or something, assuming they franchise.
EDIT: only 7 locations, so probably not franchised.
Jun 5, 2019, 7:33 pm
#6393
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 197
I tapped my Capital One card today and it worked. Does anyone know if they have disabled PIN? I'll try a PIN preferring card the next time I go to Taco Bell.
Jun 5, 2019, 8:13 pm
#6394
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Jun 5, 2019, 9:40 pm
#6395
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 201
Just curious, what's the word on IKEA? I was at my local one and had previously used contactless a few times in the past (I think once it failed), but when I went today, the cashier said they "don't do Apple Pay" after scanning my Family card in the Wallet app (I'm guessing he assumed since I wasn't reaching for a wallet?). I pulled my actual credit card out and noticed the terminal said "insert, swipe, or tap" but wasn't going to argue due to it being close to closing and plenty of people in line behind me.
In the restaurant portion, they've advertised and supported Apple Pay for ages, so I ran into no issue there - they use the same terminals we do at work, but on those near swivel stands. The only odd thing is that the cashier asked what kind of card I was using after it had been read (Visa/Mastercard/etc. was his wording). Not sure why, but I feel like I might have been asked that the last time, too.
In the restaurant portion, they've advertised and supported Apple Pay for ages, so I ran into no issue there - they use the same terminals we do at work, but on those near swivel stands. The only odd thing is that the cashier asked what kind of card I was using after it had been read (Visa/Mastercard/etc. was his wording). Not sure why, but I feel like I might have been asked that the last time, too.
Jun 7, 2019, 11:47 am
#6396
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Just curious, what's the word on IKEA? I was at my local one and had previously used contactless a few times in the past (I think once it failed), but when I went today, the cashier said they "don't do Apple Pay" after scanning my Family card in the Wallet app (I'm guessing he assumed since I wasn't reaching for a wallet?). I pulled my actual credit card out and noticed the terminal said "insert, swipe, or tap" but wasn't going to argue due to it being close to closing and plenty of people in line behind me.
In the restaurant portion, they've advertised and supported Apple Pay for ages, so I ran into no issue there - they use the same terminals we do at work, but on those near swivel stands. The only odd thing is that the cashier asked what kind of card I was using after it had been read (Visa/Mastercard/etc. was his wording). Not sure why, but I feel like I might have been asked that the last time, too.
In the restaurant portion, they've advertised and supported Apple Pay for ages, so I ran into no issue there - they use the same terminals we do at work, but on those near swivel stands. The only odd thing is that the cashier asked what kind of card I was using after it had been read (Visa/Mastercard/etc. was his wording). Not sure why, but I feel like I might have been asked that the last time, too.
Jun 7, 2019, 12:36 pm
#6397
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 201
I don't think I've had anywhere else ask me verbally if it's a Mastercard/Visa/Amex/Discover after the card read happens. Perhaps there's something on their POS software that acts as a survey? ("Customer used a Mastercard with Apple Pay")
As for the main store, they weren't busy today - mx915 showed "swipe, tap, insert" and I tried, but with no acknowledgment (just "Hold Near Reader" on my phone and the terminal waiting) - cashier said it's been spotty, so I'm wondering if it's something software-related.
Jun 7, 2019, 1:15 pm
#6398
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
As for the main store, they weren't busy today - mx915 showed "swipe, tap, insert" and I tried, but with no acknowledgment (just "Hold Near Reader" on my phone and the terminal waiting) - cashier said it's been spotty, so I'm wondering if it's something software-related.
Jun 7, 2019, 8:51 pm
#6399
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
I don't understand why Wells Fargo and Chase are holding out installing contactless on their debit cards?
Plastic is plastic and the concept of making a credit card or a debit card contactless should be the same. Why the 6+ month delay from when the credit cards receive the technology?
Also - why is Bank of America holding out? I would. expect something like this from Discover, since generally Discover is never on the brink of the latest technology, but yeah...
Plastic is plastic and the concept of making a credit card or a debit card contactless should be the same. Why the 6+ month delay from when the credit cards receive the technology?
Also - why is Bank of America holding out? I would. expect something like this from Discover, since generally Discover is never on the brink of the latest technology, but yeah...
Jun 7, 2019, 10:24 pm
#6400
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I don't understand why Wells Fargo and Chase are holding out installing contactless on their debit cards?
Plastic is plastic and the concept of making a credit card or a debit card contactless should be the same. Why the 6+ month delay from when the credit cards receive the technology?
Plastic is plastic and the concept of making a credit card or a debit card contactless should be the same. Why the 6+ month delay from when the credit cards receive the technology?
BTW, BofA is at least trialing in cities with open loop contactless enabled on their transit systems.
Jun 7, 2019, 11:52 pm
#6401
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Speaking of ATMs, I walked around my neighborhood tonight and ended up stopping by BofA, Chase and WF ATMs. None of them have changed from accepting anything other than their own debit cards in mobile wallets. Chase ATMs in particular beep three times and otherwise do nothing when you tap a Chase contactless credit card (!) but will actually display an error if you use a credit card or non-Chase debit card with Apple/Google Pay.
So yeah, probably not a good idea to have contactless debit cards until those work at ATMs. That said, though, I thought I remember reading somewhere that WF is going to release the cards before getting the ATMs working.
So yeah, probably not a good idea to have contactless debit cards until those work at ATMs. That said, though, I thought I remember reading somewhere that WF is going to release the cards before getting the ATMs working.
Jun 8, 2019, 9:39 am
#6402
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Indianapolis area
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 435
I don't understand why Wells Fargo and Chase are holding out installing contactless on their debit cards?
Plastic is plastic and the concept of making a credit card or a debit card contactless should be the same. Why the 6+ month delay from when the credit cards receive the technology?
Plastic is plastic and the concept of making a credit card or a debit card contactless should be the same. Why the 6+ month delay from when the credit cards receive the technology?
https://www.digitaltransactions.net/...pi-card-group/
Jun 8, 2019, 12:12 pm
#6403
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
From what I've read part of it has to do with manufacturing capacity for the dual interface cards - the suppliers can only make so many so fast, so the roll outs are therefore staged to match supply availability.
https://www.digitaltransactions.net/...pi-card-group/
https://www.digitaltransactions.net/...pi-card-group/
Honestly, it's too bad we didn't do dual interface from the start, if only for cards designed for travel use.
Jun 8, 2019, 2:14 pm
#6404
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Diners Club MC tap at Smart & Final failed with "card not accepted, please insert". Sounds like there's still no EMV contactless there.
OTOH, there are still a larger number of places that ask for PIN than I thought. I was expecting most to eventually disable support (at least for smaller transactions).
OTOH, there are still a larger number of places that ask for PIN than I thought. I was expecting most to eventually disable support (at least for smaller transactions).
Jun 8, 2019, 2:59 pm
#6405
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Long Island, NY
Programs: Marriott Titanium Elite/Lifetime Titanium, Delta Platinum Medallion, Hertz #1 Gold
Posts: 722
Flyertalk field trip report to use OMNY
Went to Manhattan and Staten Island today to use OMNY for the first time.
1st trip:
Tapped in at 33rd St on the 6 via my Apple Watch. Express Transit worked as advertised. OMNY charged my Chase CSR $2.75 right away, right after I tapped. Took the 6 to 14th st, transferred to the 4 to Bowling Green. Walked to the Staten Island Ferry, took that over to the St George ferry terminal on SI(free). Took a S44 bus to the staten island mall. Tapped on the bus using my apple watch.
When I logged in to the omny website after tapping in at 33rd st, it showed a fare, but it did not have a station attached to it. I checked when I got to bowling green, and it had station info there.
In Staten Island, as soon as I tapped on the S44, the website showed the activity correctly. No additional charge, because it was considered a free transfer.
2nd trip:
Decided to take the SIM4C express bus back to manhattan. After messaging @tmiw, decided to use my physical CSR to tap in on the bus.
Here's where its a little weird. After tapping in on the bus, I see both a $6.75 charge and a $2.75 charge on my CSR. Logging in to omny.info, it shows a $6.75 pending charge, and a $0.00 closed charge. I guess instead of $.01, NYC uses $2.75 as a pending amount.
I took videos of me using it during the first trip, and a screenshot from omny.info. That can be found at: https://imgur.com/a/Tpp0sbD
1st trip:
Tapped in at 33rd St on the 6 via my Apple Watch. Express Transit worked as advertised. OMNY charged my Chase CSR $2.75 right away, right after I tapped. Took the 6 to 14th st, transferred to the 4 to Bowling Green. Walked to the Staten Island Ferry, took that over to the St George ferry terminal on SI(free). Took a S44 bus to the staten island mall. Tapped on the bus using my apple watch.
When I logged in to the omny website after tapping in at 33rd st, it showed a fare, but it did not have a station attached to it. I checked when I got to bowling green, and it had station info there.
In Staten Island, as soon as I tapped on the S44, the website showed the activity correctly. No additional charge, because it was considered a free transfer.
2nd trip:
Decided to take the SIM4C express bus back to manhattan. After messaging @tmiw, decided to use my physical CSR to tap in on the bus.
Here's where its a little weird. After tapping in on the bus, I see both a $6.75 charge and a $2.75 charge on my CSR. Logging in to omny.info, it shows a $6.75 pending charge, and a $0.00 closed charge. I guess instead of $.01, NYC uses $2.75 as a pending amount.
I took videos of me using it during the first trip, and a screenshot from omny.info. That can be found at: https://imgur.com/a/Tpp0sbD