Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
- - - - - -
- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Mar 1, 2019, 8:14 pm
#5746
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: DL(PM), UA(Silver), AA(EXP) Marriott(Ti), HH(Gold), Hertz(PC)
Posts: 2,667
[QUOTE=tmiw;30837007]That won't necessarily guarantee that it's working 100% correctly. For instance, Safeway currently only accepts Visa contactless/QUOTE]
I'm not sure if this is relevant, but two days ago I paid with Discover via Apple Pay at Safeway in San Jose CA.
I'm not sure if this is relevant, but two days ago I paid with Discover via Apple Pay at Safeway in San Jose CA.
Mar 1, 2019, 11:50 pm
#5747
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
Programs: American Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver
Posts: 5,640
Was the Discover card adde to Apple Pay after December? If it was, then it probably won't work. If it wasn't, then it's processing as MSD, not EMV.
Mar 2, 2019, 2:51 am
#5748
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
That won't necessarily guarantee that it's working 100% correctly. For instance, Safeway currently only accepts Visa contactless (and AmEx in mobile wallets before they started being provisioned as EMV) due to a bug they recently introduced.
What this will help with, however, is with merchants like Kroger and Walmart, who are likely resisting in large part due to interchange concerns. Not that mandates won't anger them even further, of course, but they'd likely comply anyway.
What this will help with, however, is with merchants like Kroger and Walmart, who are likely resisting in large part due to interchange concerns. Not that mandates won't anger them even further, of course, but they'd likely comply anyway.
Bad news is Contactless seems to be broken at Save Mart/Food Maxx. I tried at two different locations on self checkout and it did not work. I tried both Android Pay as well as physical Contactless cards (which I have a couple of). At one location I had them suspend and move me to a regular register and it again does not work, the machine beeps for tap then says card not accepted please insert card. Save Mart is on NCR. I am a little surprised by this and suspect they tried to go EMV Contactless and something "broke." They have been very supportive of Contactless and have promoted it with in-store signage, pinpad graphics, signs around checkout, signs on shopping carts, and in their print ads.
Mar 2, 2019, 9:20 am
#5749
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Mar 2, 2019, 9:41 am
#5750
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SFO
Programs: AS 75K (OW), SK Silver (*A), UR, MR
Posts: 3,345
Mar 2, 2019, 4:12 pm
#5751
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Mastercard (at least physical contactless) worked today when I tried it, so I suspect the original problem's now fixed. ^ It probably shouldn't have taken the better half of a month though, never mind have occurred in the first place.
Mar 2, 2019, 7:18 pm
#5752
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1
Today I was in a local grocery store called Busch's. Their terminals show that contactless is accepted. I tried both Google Pay and tapping my card. Both failed saying the card must be inserted. In both cases, the terminal recognizes the card or phone, but it declines. My card has a transaction log, but neither the card or Google Pay show any transaction attempt in their history.
People are NOT going to start using contactless when things like this are still so common. I think card networks should mandate contactless functionality on any NFC capable terminal.
People are NOT going to start using contactless when things like this are still so common. I think card networks should mandate contactless functionality on any NFC capable terminal.
Mar 2, 2019, 8:47 pm
#5753
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,060
I hadn't had a chance to read the thread today or I would have tried Discover via Google Pay. I'll try next week. ^
Mar 2, 2019, 10:00 pm
#5754
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Pet Supermarket Contactless is a real trip. The Veirfone Point always comes up with the expected "Swipe Tap Insert" (only after the cashier is done scanning items does the pinpad even activate). But the Contactless... just doesn't pick up most of the time. It just stays on the "Swipe Tap Insert" screen and is completely non-responsive. Works one day, not the next, then works again the next. May not work with a physical card Visa but then the same Visa works in Android Pay. I never quite know what will happen when I try it there. The store only has two cash registers and both exhibit similar odd behavior.
Mar 3, 2019, 12:46 pm
#5755
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 28
I tried my AMEX Gold via Apple Pay at Safeway yesterday, and it still resulted in chip read declined. Visa via Apple Pay worked as expected.
Mar 3, 2019, 6:14 pm
#5756
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: RDU
Programs: DL(PM), UA(Silver), AA(EXP) Marriott(Ti), HH(Gold), Hertz(PC)
Posts: 2,667
Mar 3, 2019, 6:46 pm
#5757
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
Programs: American Gold, Marriott Gold, Hilton Silver
Posts: 5,640
I wish I could say that I tried Amex contactless it at Safeway. But, when I got to the office, I walked in to 16 open tickets for contactless not working. I tried rebooting the pin pads at the first store and that didn’t fix it. The on-screen dots show up, but the pin pads don’t actually have NFC turned on since my phone did not pop up the wallet when held up to the screen, and even when I tried to use Apple Pay to test it, no response. I rebooted every pin pad in that store and none of them would work. Someone in the software dept. screwed this one up very badly.
I’ve escalated this as a division-wide issue to the Safeway POS engineering department. Fingers crossed that they’ll at least roll it back.
Alright, that means it’s still using MSD so it should work.
I’ve escalated this as a division-wide issue to the Safeway POS engineering department. Fingers crossed that they’ll at least roll it back.
Alright, that means it’s still using MSD so it should work.
Mar 3, 2019, 6:55 pm
#5758
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I wish I could say that I tried Amex contactless it at Safeway. But, when I got to the office, I walked in to 16 open tickets for contactless not working. I tried rebooting the pin pads at the first store and that didn’t fix it. The on-screen dots show up, but the pin pads don’t actually have NFC turned on since my phone did not pop up the wallet when held up to the screen, and even when I tried to use Apple Pay to test it, no response. I rebooted every pin pad in that store and none of them would work. Someone in the software dept. screwed this one up very badly.
I’ve escalated this as a division-wide issue to the Safeway POS engineering department. Fingers crossed that they’ll at least roll it back.
I’ve escalated this as a division-wide issue to the Safeway POS engineering department. Fingers crossed that they’ll at least roll it back.
Mar 3, 2019, 6:59 pm
#5759
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
The Habit seems to have put in Magtek PIN pads (like what Marriott uses). EMV is enabled but no contactless, unfortunately. And it looks like QC is being used too. I'll have to come back and try a PIN preferring card to confirm QC/see if they bothered supporting PIN.
On another note, perhaps US Marriott locations will soon support EMV finally?
On another note, perhaps US Marriott locations will soon support EMV finally?
Mar 3, 2019, 7:05 pm
#5760
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
The Habit seems to have put in Magtek PIN pads (like what Marriott uses). EMV is enabled but no contactless, unfortunately. And it looks like QC is being used too. I'll have to come back and try a PIN preferring card to confirm QC/see if they bothered supporting PIN.
On another note, perhaps US Marriott locations will soon support EMV finally?
On another note, perhaps US Marriott locations will soon support EMV finally?