Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Jan 15, 2019, 11:33 pm
#5431
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
"PenFed Credit Union to Give Members the Ability to Tap to Pay with New Contactless Visa Credit and Debit Cards"
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300778099.html
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300778099.html
Jan 16, 2019, 11:10 am
#5432
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Is H-E-B switching to Equinox terminals? (Note the photo in https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comm...birthday_gift/. I thought they were using Verifone before.)
Also, I've been using the Citi Pay app for NFC since yesterday and so far, so good. cardpeek even shows the needed certificates, so it's possible that it'll work on TfL. Not that I'll likely ever try it while I still have the card, but still. Too bad Citi doesn't support Google Pay on the AA cards.
Also, I've been using the Citi Pay app for NFC since yesterday and so far, so good. cardpeek even shows the needed certificates, so it's possible that it'll work on TfL. Not that I'll likely ever try it while I still have the card, but still. Too bad Citi doesn't support Google Pay on the AA cards.
Jan 16, 2019, 12:09 pm
#5433
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Is H-E-B switching to Equinox terminals? (Note the photo in https://www.reddit.com/r/Austin/comm...birthday_gift/. I thought they were using Verifone before.)
Here from 2016:
Last edited by scibot; Jan 16, 2019 at 12:45 pm
Jan 16, 2019, 5:23 pm
#5434
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Location: San Diego, CA
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It does look like they have the external contactless reader, though, right?
Jan 17, 2019, 3:43 am
#5435
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 238
How do "chargebacks" work on Apple Pay/Google Pay/Samsung Pay? Does it chargeback Google or the vendor?
The reason I am asking is because I've noticed people getting their Google Pay account shutdown when they chargeback the Google Store (when Fedex never delivered their phone or someone did fraud). With a Google Pay account shutdown it means you can't pay for anything on Google using that account.
The reason I am asking is because I've noticed people getting their Google Pay account shutdown when they chargeback the Google Store (when Fedex never delivered their phone or someone did fraud). With a Google Pay account shutdown it means you can't pay for anything on Google using that account.
Jan 17, 2019, 7:06 am
#5436
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Indianapolis area
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 434
The chargeback goes to the vendor. That said it's usually best to work directly with the vendor to resolve the issue before going the chargeback route for (non fraud) purchase disputes. The chargeback should be the fall back action if the vendor isn't cooperative.
Jan 17, 2019, 7:55 am
#5437
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,059
Correct, and any adjustment would go on the card account directly as if you had used the physical card. Google Pay wouldn't be involved.
Jan 17, 2019, 10:38 am
#5438
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Location: San Diego, CA
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My CSR's card image on Chase online banking is showing that default Chase card picture this morning. Could it be in the process of getting contactless? Their contactless info page still says "coming in 2019", FWIW.
Jan 17, 2019, 7:21 pm
#5440
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
How do "chargebacks" work on Apple Pay/Google Pay/Samsung Pay? Does it chargeback Google or the vendor?
The reason I am asking is because I've noticed people getting their Google Pay account shutdown when they chargeback the Google Store (when Fedex never delivered their phone or someone did fraud). With a Google Pay account shutdown it means you can't pay for anything on Google using that account.
The reason I am asking is because I've noticed people getting their Google Pay account shutdown when they chargeback the Google Store (when Fedex never delivered their phone or someone did fraud). With a Google Pay account shutdown it means you can't pay for anything on Google using that account.
If you use Google Pay option in app or card associated with Google Pay for online payment for them, they will lock you out after a certain amount or 2nd charge back in a certain time frame.
Last edited by PKCorey; Jan 17, 2019 at 7:29 pm
Jan 18, 2019, 1:05 pm
#5441
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 182
Jan 18, 2019, 11:40 pm
#5442
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 451
Two things which I wanted to share with the group.
1. I mentioned earlier that Discover on Google Pay was not registering transactions in Poland - while all other cards, so American visa cards and a Polish MC worked fine. Interestingly enough, I came back to the States and had used Discover here twice on GP and it registered like all other cards. So there must be some issue with international maybe.
2. My TD Credit card is a pain and always gets rejected at gas stations and other weird places, whereas my TD Debit card never suspects fraud and goes through everywhere. So I had an interesting situation. I was in Ukraine on January 8th in Kiev and wanted to use Google Pay on the subway turnstiles. TD Credit card was my default and so I had gone through, turnstile opened and.. transaction showed up as declined in Google Pay. I got a message from the bank asking if it's a fraud or valid, I responded valid and the card worked. I tried it again later and it got rejected - TD website shows the response as "DO NOT HONOR". So I was not able to use the card there, I switched to TD Debit and was fine throughout the trip.
Interestingly enough, 24 hours later, the Kiev Metro tried getting money for the fare that I didn't pay after all and it got declined again. And today, I went into Google Pay and sure enough, 10 days later, another attempt - bank keeps showing it as DO NOT HONOR but no texts from them and Google Pay shows up like this:
It's curious that it let me through the turnstile but money was not taken. Weird loophole, but wanted to share it nonetheless. Again, I wasn't able to go through the turnstile again with the card after first payment decline. Also, I wonder how long they will keep trying to take the 29 cents off the card!
1. I mentioned earlier that Discover on Google Pay was not registering transactions in Poland - while all other cards, so American visa cards and a Polish MC worked fine. Interestingly enough, I came back to the States and had used Discover here twice on GP and it registered like all other cards. So there must be some issue with international maybe.
2. My TD Credit card is a pain and always gets rejected at gas stations and other weird places, whereas my TD Debit card never suspects fraud and goes through everywhere. So I had an interesting situation. I was in Ukraine on January 8th in Kiev and wanted to use Google Pay on the subway turnstiles. TD Credit card was my default and so I had gone through, turnstile opened and.. transaction showed up as declined in Google Pay. I got a message from the bank asking if it's a fraud or valid, I responded valid and the card worked. I tried it again later and it got rejected - TD website shows the response as "DO NOT HONOR". So I was not able to use the card there, I switched to TD Debit and was fine throughout the trip.
Interestingly enough, 24 hours later, the Kiev Metro tried getting money for the fare that I didn't pay after all and it got declined again. And today, I went into Google Pay and sure enough, 10 days later, another attempt - bank keeps showing it as DO NOT HONOR but no texts from them and Google Pay shows up like this:
It's curious that it let me through the turnstile but money was not taken. Weird loophole, but wanted to share it nonetheless. Again, I wasn't able to go through the turnstile again with the card after first payment decline. Also, I wonder how long they will keep trying to take the 29 cents off the card!
Jan 19, 2019, 11:06 am
#5443
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 238
I had this happen with Google Pay when someone used my phone for their Uber and I "accidentally" used their card and they charged back for it.
If you use Google Pay option in app or card associated with Google Pay for online payment for them, they will lock you out after a certain amount or 2nd charge back in a certain time frame.
If you use Google Pay option in app or card associated with Google Pay for online payment for them, they will lock you out after a certain amount or 2nd charge back in a certain time frame.
Jan 19, 2019, 8:23 pm
#5444
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I get being locked out for disputing transactions for Google services (like Fi) as a security measure, but it seems excessive to be locked out for transactions done in-person or through third party apps/websites. PayPal does this too, IIRC, which considering their past reputation has always struck me as anti-customer.
Jan 19, 2019, 8:30 pm
#5445
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Anyway, looks like the local Whole Foods got rid of the EMV text from the receipts for contactless transactions too. I believe Sprouts and Grocery Outlet are the only grocery stores still using EMV contactless that I know of. However, I guess it's possible that it's still being used at the others, just with the EMV info suppressed (if that's even an option for individual stores).
Additionally, the EMV enabled car wash chain here still doesn't handle MC contactless, but the Verifone display says "insert/tap card" now while you're going through product selection on the larger touchscreen. I don't think QC or the contactless reader is enabled at that point, though, but that might be something to check once I'm not trying to meet minimum spend.
Additionally, the EMV enabled car wash chain here still doesn't handle MC contactless, but the Verifone display says "insert/tap card" now while you're going through product selection on the larger touchscreen. I don't think QC or the contactless reader is enabled at that point, though, but that might be something to check once I'm not trying to meet minimum spend.