Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Jul 13, 2018, 7:26 pm
#4306
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
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I read this article: https://www.paymentssource.com/news/...ds-not-so-fast
" “Now that more terminals are capable of accepting contactless, as the original batches of EMV cards (issued in 2015) start to expire, I expect more issuers will be replacing them with cards that also have contactless capability,” said Zilvinas Bareisis, a senior analyst with Celent. He noted that certain issuers, including JPMorgan Chase and Capital One, already provide certain customers with contactless-enabled cards upon request."
Since I haven't inquired in a while, I decided to contact Chase again. I was told Chase is still not providing NFC-cards in the US. I explained to the representative I read an article that stated they had started to do this by request but acknowledged the information was not directly from Chase. The representative then said to me Chase will "NEVER" provide RFID cards again because they had so much fraud with RFID cards and people's card numbers were getting "lifted" out of their mailboxes with these cards. The representative further told me the cards are unsafe and should not be used. I told the representative I have been using RFID cards since back when Chase first issued them as well as some other RFID cards at present that are issued by other card issuers and have never had any such issues. She said I was "fortunate."
Wow. Time to contact their upper management.
" “Now that more terminals are capable of accepting contactless, as the original batches of EMV cards (issued in 2015) start to expire, I expect more issuers will be replacing them with cards that also have contactless capability,” said Zilvinas Bareisis, a senior analyst with Celent. He noted that certain issuers, including JPMorgan Chase and Capital One, already provide certain customers with contactless-enabled cards upon request."
Since I haven't inquired in a while, I decided to contact Chase again. I was told Chase is still not providing NFC-cards in the US. I explained to the representative I read an article that stated they had started to do this by request but acknowledged the information was not directly from Chase. The representative then said to me Chase will "NEVER" provide RFID cards again because they had so much fraud with RFID cards and people's card numbers were getting "lifted" out of their mailboxes with these cards. The representative further told me the cards are unsafe and should not be used. I told the representative I have been using RFID cards since back when Chase first issued them as well as some other RFID cards at present that are issued by other card issuers and have never had any such issues. She said I was "fortunate."
Wow. Time to contact their upper management.
Anyway, the response from the CS agent is likely not the way a Chase PR person would phrase it (nor in the scripts CS is supposed to follow). However, considering that a significant number of Americans still have security concerns with mobile wallets, I'm not sure how well contactless cards will be accepted if they ever came back en masse.
Jul 15, 2018, 7:08 pm
#4307
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I was about to tap at a former Arco (still using MX860s with external contactless) when the cashier told me that they "don't accept Apple Pay". Is there anything with former Arco stations in particular that would prevent it working or was he preventing me from using it for some other reason? EMV worked fine.
Jul 15, 2018, 9:47 pm
#4308
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
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I was about to tap at a former Arco (still using MX860s with external contactless) when the cashier told me that they "don't accept Apple Pay". Is there anything with former Arco stations in particular that would prevent it working or was he preventing me from using it for some other reason? EMV worked fine.
The Arco here that recently debranded but kept NFC, and has those MX860s, the NFC works fine both inside and at the pump.
Another Arco here that debranded last year, went "down" a version on the register software and disabled EMV and also the NFC stopped working. So there you have to swipe (still).
Jul 15, 2018, 10:27 pm
#4309
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Article is paywalled but since the URL says "not so fast"...
Anyway, the response from the CS agent is likely not the way a Chase PR person would phrase it (nor in the scripts CS is supposed to follow). However, considering that a significant number of Americans still have security concerns with mobile wallets, I'm not sure how well contactless cards will be accepted if they ever came back en masse.
Anyway, the response from the CS agent is likely not the way a Chase PR person would phrase it (nor in the scripts CS is supposed to follow). However, considering that a significant number of Americans still have security concerns with mobile wallets, I'm not sure how well contactless cards will be accepted if they ever came back en masse.
Jul 15, 2018, 10:37 pm
#4310
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
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If EMV works, the NFC should work too. Also does the NFC work out at the pumps? You should have just tried it.
The Arco here that recently debranded but kept NFC, and has those MX860s, the NFC works fine both inside and at the pump.
Another Arco here that debranded last year, went "down" a version on the register software and disabled EMV and also the NFC stopped working. So there you have to swipe (still).
The Arco here that recently debranded but kept NFC, and has those MX860s, the NFC works fine both inside and at the pump.
Another Arco here that debranded last year, went "down" a version on the register software and disabled EMV and also the NFC stopped working. So there you have to swipe (still).
Officially, Chase discontinued it due to "low use"; they may not want to bother to based on that reasoning. That said, that CS rep should have been trained better.
Jul 16, 2018, 12:00 pm
#4311
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
I went to a local Asian grocery store with a MX 915. Last time, I used Samsung Pay before I noticed the NFC option. I tried NFC today and it failed both times. It stated that I need to insert card so I just used Samsung Pay. Main screen shows Visa Paywave and Master Pass. I guess, it isn't activated.
Jul 16, 2018, 1:24 pm
#4312
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Pax S300s don't like Samsung Pay either, apparently. Apple Pay worked fine at this same location in the past, so it's definitely another MST/NFC conflict issue.
BTW there's no point in saying "insert/swipe anytime" if I have to do it again after the cashier pushes the Card button.
BTW there's no point in saying "insert/swipe anytime" if I have to do it again after the cashier pushes the Card button.
Jul 16, 2018, 7:20 pm
#4313
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
I went to a local Asian grocery store with a MX 915. Last time, I used Samsung Pay before I noticed the NFC option. I tried NFC today and it failed both times. It stated that I need to insert card so I just used Samsung Pay. Main screen shows Visa Paywave and Master Pass. I guess, it isn't activated.
Jul 17, 2018, 9:06 am
#4314
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
If you tried a Visa card instead try out an MC or AMEX so I ran into Mitsuwa Marketplace like that one without the software update to allow Visa contactless to work but MC should work but I forgot to try it out and just used the chip. It sounds like both places use the same UI to me and other brands that use that UI seem to support Visa.
Last edited by PKCorey; Jul 17, 2018 at 9:14 am
Jul 17, 2018, 12:43 pm
#4315
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Hmm so there is this strange c-store pos system and I have no idea what it is but it uses MX915's. Last time I visited such as station about an hour away it did not have EMV or nfc but that location is now listed on the MC contactless locator so maybe it supports both now and so are the ones with a different owner in Colorado with the same strange system. I know that Flex Pay IV works on whatever system it is. Here is a receipt from a Colorado location about a year ago: https://imgur.com/LSjuZP0 It also gives out way too much of my actual card info what the heck so I had to edit the image. So I wonder does anyone on here know what system this is?
Jul 17, 2018, 3:24 pm
#4316
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A rumor about contactless at Culver's, for what it's worth: Rumor: Could Culver?s Restaurants Soon Accept Apple Pay?
Jul 17, 2018, 10:52 pm
#4317
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,171
Received a new Wells Fargo Home Rebate Visa Signature card in the mail today. Like the Visa Platinum version it replaced, but unlike the Wells Fargo Cash Wise card I got a few months ago, it has NFC. Like the Cash Wise card though, it no longer has offline PIN on the CVM list.
Jul 20, 2018, 9:38 am
#4318
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Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but at least one Capital One card does show the contactless symbol on the front. However, I still don't think its placement matters (as I'm fairly sure the owner of the card I saw only inserts it).
Additionally, there was an update for the Gear's companion app that caused Samsung Pay to appear in there now. Hopefully it'll end up clearing my cards less often as a result.
Additionally, there was an update for the Gear's companion app that caused Samsung Pay to appear in there now. Hopefully it'll end up clearing my cards less often as a result.
Jul 20, 2018, 9:44 am
#4319
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
The MC Contactless locator has been updated today it seems, hmmm. So I have noticed an Applebees an hour away so far but not much else.
Is this an Equinox L5300 Black at Arby's: https://imgur.com/QHT2vUz ? If so they really have no standard system it seems but 2-3 different systems.
Is this an Equinox L5300 Black at Arby's: https://imgur.com/QHT2vUz ? If so they really have no standard system it seems but 2-3 different systems.
Last edited by scibot; Jul 20, 2018 at 10:33 am
Jul 20, 2018, 10:34 am
#4320
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
The MC Contactless locator has been updated today it seems, hmmm. So I have noticed an Applebees an hour away so far but not much else.
Is this an Equinox L5300 Black at Arby's: https://imgur.com/QHT2vUz ? If so they really have no standard system it seems but 2-3 different systems.
Is this an Equinox L5300 Black at Arby's: https://imgur.com/QHT2vUz ? If so they really have no standard system it seems but 2-3 different systems.