Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Oct 20, 2017, 12:18 am
#2371
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
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Anyone have contactless not working at Safeway and used the self checkout machines? Well apparently they need to roll an update to allow it to work https://twitter.com/Safeway/status/920332627290161152 and it will be done by the end of November according to the twitter people.(Probably less time)
Maybe the Contactless does not work at the Safeways with the (new) IBM/Toshiba Self Checkout. There's IBM/Toshiba equipment again that can't run Contactless for some reason...
Oct 20, 2017, 1:50 am
#2372
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Posts: 2,035
Oct 20, 2017, 4:22 am
#2373
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
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But really, the point is that there is an alternative to just inserting your debit card and either entering your PIN or not. At the very least PIN/fingerprint/selfie is required, unlike the current situation.
Oct 20, 2017, 6:15 am
#2374
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Posts: 2,035
We obviously cannot use authentication with a yes/no text from a phone for amounts over $25 or $50 because our society doesn't know what technology is... So perhaps chip and PIN on all debit cards would be a better solution, but unlike the current rules, $0 liability would then be enforced on PIN transactions and the interchange fees would then be run as credit PIN; thus, the interchange price would stay the same. On top of this, MasterCard would cover online fraud by forcing the merchant to bring up a separate form built by MasterCard for the cardholder to enter their PIN before the card can be used.
Oct 20, 2017, 7:14 am
#2376
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
I'm not looking for an alternative, but new rules and standards implemented by MasterCard to increase the security of their debit cards.
We obviously cannot use authentication with a yes/no text from a phone for amounts over $25 or $50 because our society doesn't know what technology is... So perhaps chip and PIN on all debit cards would be a better solution, but unlike the current rules, $0 liability would then be enforced on PIN transactions and the interchange fees would then be run as credit PIN; thus, the interchange price would stay the same. On top of this, MasterCard would cover online fraud by forcing the merchant to bring up a separate form built by MasterCard for the cardholder to enter their PIN before the card can be used.
We obviously cannot use authentication with a yes/no text from a phone for amounts over $25 or $50 because our society doesn't know what technology is... So perhaps chip and PIN on all debit cards would be a better solution, but unlike the current rules, $0 liability would then be enforced on PIN transactions and the interchange fees would then be run as credit PIN; thus, the interchange price would stay the same. On top of this, MasterCard would cover online fraud by forcing the merchant to bring up a separate form built by MasterCard for the cardholder to enter their PIN before the card can be used.
Mastercard can’t really do anything about debit cards because of the common AID.
Mastercard have something called SecureCode, but almost no one uses it.
Oct 20, 2017, 9:31 am
#2377
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I've only seen Newegg and the US airline websites use it in recent memory, the latter likely because some foreign cards would decline without it. I wouldn't be surprised if the US ends up mostly using Visa Checkout/Masterpass instead because of 3D Secure's bad reputation among merchants.
Oct 20, 2017, 2:49 pm
#2378
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 266
Interesting since I use MST only at stores that don't accept NFC. I have to give it a try again and see what happens next time.
Oct 20, 2017, 5:17 pm
#2379
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
OK, Cupertino Safeway, I visited two weeks ago and looked like the same terminals as before so I don't recall if I tried.
Today, I tried on one of those Verifone terminals and what do you know, Apple Pay came up.
First time I did it though, after authenticating, it didn't go through even though it check-marked on my iPhone.
Did it again, leaving the iPhone right on top of the terminal throughout and it went through.
This was at a checkout line, not self-checkout.
There are no signs indicating contactless or mobile payments are supported. The terminal screen doesn't flash the contactless logo.
I guess they are kind of apathetic about that, even though it's just down the street from the Apple Campus so there should be a lot of customers of that store with iPhones.
The cashier said the Samsung phones go through much faster than iPhones though.
Today, I tried on one of those Verifone terminals and what do you know, Apple Pay came up.
First time I did it though, after authenticating, it didn't go through even though it check-marked on my iPhone.
Did it again, leaving the iPhone right on top of the terminal throughout and it went through.
This was at a checkout line, not self-checkout.
There are no signs indicating contactless or mobile payments are supported. The terminal screen doesn't flash the contactless logo.
I guess they are kind of apathetic about that, even though it's just down the street from the Apple Campus so there should be a lot of customers of that store with iPhones.
The cashier said the Samsung phones go through much faster than iPhones though.
Oct 20, 2017, 6:53 pm
#2380
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
OK, Cupertino Safeway, I visited two weeks ago and looked like the same terminals as before so I don't recall if I tried.
Today, I tried on one of those Verifone terminals and what do you know, Apple Pay came up.
First time I did it though, after authenticating, it didn't go through even though it check-marked on my iPhone.
Did it again, leaving the iPhone right on top of the terminal throughout and it went through.
This was at a checkout line, not self-checkout.
There are no signs indicating contactless or mobile payments are supported. The terminal screen doesn't flash the contactless logo.
I guess they are kind of apathetic about that, even though it's just down the street from the Apple Campus so there should be a lot of customers of that store with iPhones.
The cashier said the Samsung phones go through much faster than iPhones though.
Today, I tried on one of those Verifone terminals and what do you know, Apple Pay came up.
First time I did it though, after authenticating, it didn't go through even though it check-marked on my iPhone.
Did it again, leaving the iPhone right on top of the terminal throughout and it went through.
This was at a checkout line, not self-checkout.
There are no signs indicating contactless or mobile payments are supported. The terminal screen doesn't flash the contactless logo.
I guess they are kind of apathetic about that, even though it's just down the street from the Apple Campus so there should be a lot of customers of that store with iPhones.
The cashier said the Samsung phones go through much faster than iPhones though.
Oct 21, 2017, 12:49 am
#2381
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 238
I removed and re-added my Chase Sapphire Reserve and it works on TFL public transport in London on my Apple Watch! Awesome. So for had very little use for physical money.
Oct 21, 2017, 1:21 am
#2383
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
I don't think Safeway's Contactless is any slower than that of its competitors in NorCal Raleys or Save Mart, the speed seems about the same. It isn't Walgreens fast, but we know the reasons for that.
Oct 21, 2017, 2:25 am
#2384
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I know the older iPhones were kinda slow with NFC but 6s and above is almost instant if the terminal isn't screwed up for whatever reason. Hopefully the same is true for the iPhone X.