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USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)

USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)

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Old May 19, 19, 12:06 pm   -   Wikipost
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Last edit by: storewanderer
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Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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FAQ
  1. What is EMV contactless?

    EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.

    In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.

  2. What is CDCVM?

    CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.

    More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527

  3. Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?

    Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)

  4. Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?

    This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)

  5. I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.

    Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.

    Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).

    Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.

  6. How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?

    An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.

(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
  • 7-Eleven
  • 99 Ranch
  • Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
  • Apple Store*
  • Athleta
  • Auntie Annes Pretzels
  • Banana Republic
  • Costco Wholesale
  • CVS
  • DuaneReade*
  • El Pollo Loco
  • EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
  • Five Below*
  • Five Guys
  • GAP
  • Grocery Outlet*
  • Harmon's Grocery
  • H&M*
  • Jolibee
  • Kohl's*
  • Lush Cosmetics*
  • Maverik
  • McDonald's*
  • Meijer
  • Old Navy
  • Panera Bread
  • PetSmart
  • Ray's Food Place
  • Round Table Pizza
  • Royal Farms
  • Red Ribbon Bakeshop
  • Sheetz
  • Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
  • Sprouts
  • Staples*
  • Starbucks*
  • Subway
  • Walgreens*
  • Weis Markets
  • All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
  • All businesses that use Clover and support EMV**
  • All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**

* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
CDCVM supported in MSD mode
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Old Nov 11, 20, 2:09 pm
  #8911  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Originally Posted by Majuki View Post
My local Costco now supports contactless. The screen invited me to tap my membership card. I did (via the Citi Costco), but the screen said that a valid membership card was required. I ended up inserting the card instead. The display said to leave the card inserted, so it's now an EMV transaction. When I selected to change the payment method, the display said to remove the card. I was then able to tap my Chase Freedom Unlimited. It looks like an EMV contactless transaction too.



My dad said he had trouble tapping his card as well. The attendant said it wasn't uncommon and that he should call Citi for a replacement.
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Old Nov 12, 20, 4:59 pm
  #8912  
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For those interested in what the Lane/7000 looks like at Canadian Walmarts: https://www.reddit.com/r/Contactless...tless_enabled/. I still don't think they'll enable contactless in the US even if/when US stores eventually get the Lane/7000, but we'll see.

BTW, it also might be worth checking Nordstrom again.
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Old Nov 12, 20, 6:47 pm
  #8913  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 902
I posted this on Reddit but Nordstrom was promoting contactless payment for cardholders in its holiday mailing. Someone else found an FAQ on the Nordstrom website confirming stores now take contactless cards.

https://www.nordstrom.com/browse/cus...ayment-methods

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Old Nov 12, 20, 10:58 pm
  #8914  
 
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Originally Posted by MASTERNC View Post
I posted this on Reddit but Nordstrom was promoting contactless payment for cardholders in its holiday mailing. Someone else found an FAQ on the Nordstrom website confirming stores now take contactless cards.

https://www.nordstrom.com/browse/cus...ayment-methods
Yes you are correct they do accept it now, It was about time they did since Point supports contactless at most places now:
Do you accept contactless payment?
Yes! We accept contactless payment at all our Nordstrom Rack and Nordstrom stores in the U.S. It's safe and easy. Just hold your tap-to-pay card or mobile device over the card-reader screen to initiate payment.

Nordstrom cardmembers can also shop card-free in stores. Just text 'Get My Card' to 85224 for a QR code shopping pass. Message and data rates may apply.

We accept only the following contactless payments:
Contactless credit and debit cards printed with this symbol:
  • Mobile-device digital wallets.
    Please note: Nordstrom credit and debit cards can only be added to Apple Pay and Google Pay™ digital wallets.
  • Nordstrom card QR code shopping pass.

Last edited by scibot; Nov 12, 20 at 11:04 pm
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Old Nov 14, 20, 1:35 pm
  #8915  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw View Post

Honestly, I think if the US adopted interchange caps at least as strict as the EU's, a lot of the complaints would go away. Possibly along with limitations on chargebacks (for instance, making them a lot more difficult to do for cardholders), though US consumer protection law IMO is not at the point where it could replace chargebacks.

Alternatively, it's possible that an extension of Durbin's caps to all debit cards and some reforms to make it easier to route contactless over debit networks (e.g. mandating CDCVM support or at the very least expanding high value PINless debit) may be enough too. However, this alone probably won't convince those merchants with more credit card use than debit.
Interchange fees will not be capped unless Democrats see a majority in the house and a 60/40 majority in the Senate and a Democrat President at a minimum.

The current Congress will never go for interchange fee caps.

Last edited by EmailKid; Nov 14, 20 at 7:35 pm Reason: Geting a little too political in an already political post
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Old Nov 14, 20, 1:47 pm
  #8916  
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The other day I saw someone at Walmart try to tap their card (Citi Costco?) on the iSC250 before inserting. Someone else was also apparently trying to use their phone (?) at Ralphs at self-checkout earlier this week before the attendant told him that they didn't support it.

Seems like more and more people are trying to tap first before inserting, just wish we didn't need the pandemic to convince people. One of the only positives of this whole thing, I guess.

Originally Posted by mikesyr18 View Post
Interchange fees will not be capped unless Democrats see a majority in the house and a 60/40 majority in the Senate and a Democrat President at a minimum.
60/40 wouldn't be needed if there was willingness to kill the filibuster, but that's a discussion for a completely different part of FT.
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Old Nov 14, 20, 6:17 pm
  #8917  
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BTW, another side effect of Nordstrom getting contactless is that their coffee shops also finally got MX915s. The lack of EMV there (and presumably their restaurants as well) was a huge omission IMO. Unfortunately I'm not sure how the restaurants are currently doing it since the location I walked by moved their seating area outdoors due to indoor dining being shut down again; hopefully they went pay at the table or at the very least at the counter/coffee shop (as the seating area was directly across from the latter).

Also, Coffee Bean declined my Revolut tap earlier today. It looks like it may have declined offline, too, as I don't see the decline in the Revolut app. I feel like I've been able to tap credit MC there before with no issues but I could be mistaken.
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Old Nov 15, 20, 1:32 pm
  #8918  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 114

Finally found a RaceTrac with NFC enabled! First one I've seen in South Florida that didn't have a Wayne pump system.
PKCorey and scibot like this.
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Old Nov 16, 20, 1:43 pm
  #8919  
 
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Originally Posted by PrendellHiggins View Post
Finally found a RaceTrac with NFC enabled! First one I've seen in South Florida that didn't have a Wayne pump system.
I'm sure its EMV contactless so is the AID is listed on the gas pump receipt? Just like Speedway who uses the same POS and NCR Optic 12 pump readers. I also wonder if you tried a debit card in a mobile wallet and did it force pin debit or did it allow pin bypass? The NCR optic has been retrofitted onto a Gilbarco pump and they also make retrofit kits for Wayne pumps as well. So hopefully you will see some of those Wayne pumps upgraded soon as well.

Last edited by scibot; Nov 16, 20 at 1:48 pm
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Old Nov 18, 20, 11:25 pm
  #8920  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
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Moe's Southwest Grill is appearing on Mastercard Nearby 👀
Also is marked as accepting NFC mobile payments on Google Maps. Will go tomorrow to confirm!
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Old Nov 19, 20, 7:11 am
  #8921  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
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I still believe the cost associated with NFC terminals is too prohibitive for merchants to propel to the massive scale we need. I'm hopeful that QR code, which doesn't come with the hardware costs, will prevail like it has done in Asia. In China, 2/3 of the Alipay payments are done on QR codes (1.7 trillion+). It's cool that Paypal announced that QR payments is available in many markets, and some other large merchants are starting to follow similar path, including Ubereats, CVS, etc.

I do think it's a big change in customer behavior, so any new change will require strong incentives, including some sort of reward constructs - at least in the beginning.
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Old Nov 19, 20, 9:54 am
  #8922  
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Originally Posted by flyerdesire View Post
I still believe the cost associated with NFC terminals is too prohibitive for merchants to propel to the massive scale we need. I'm hopeful that QR code, which doesn't come with the hardware costs, will prevail like it has done in Asia. In China, 2/3 of the Alipay payments are done on QR codes (1.7 trillion+). It's cool that Paypal announced that QR payments is available in many markets, and some other large merchants are starting to follow similar path, including Ubereats, CVS, etc.

I do think it's a big change in customer behavior, so any new change will require strong incentives, including some sort of reward constructs - at least in the beginning.
Almost 80% of locations on the EMV map support NFC/contactless payment, though. And some of the longtime holdouts are starting to flinch now, too, albeit mostly/only because of the pandemic. I'm not sure hardware cost is the problem here except for the industries that got hit especially hard (e.g. restaurants), and many of those weren't really going to bother for various cultural, etc. reasons regardless.

That said, the industries that have always resisted customer handling of payments do seem to be heading more towards QR, but it's probably more due to being caught with their pants down and needing to adopt something now. Those solutions also still work within the existing card payment rails (e.g. payment portal coming up on your phone where you enter your CC# or push the Apple/Google Pay button) rather than try to roll out a payment network from scratch. Time will tell whether customers are okay with that or eventually start demanding NFC at those places too.
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Old Nov 19, 20, 2:57 pm
  #8923  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
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Originally Posted by PrendellHiggins View Post
Moe's Southwest Grill is appearing on Mastercard Nearby 👀
Also is marked as accepting NFC mobile payments on Google Maps. Will go tomorrow to confirm!
Confirmed! Just leaves two food places I visit without NFC: Wendy's and Mission BBQ
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Old Nov 19, 20, 3:07 pm
  #8924  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw View Post
That said, the industries that have always resisted customer handling of payments do seem to be heading more towards QR, but it's probably more due to being caught with their pants down and needing to adopt something now. Those solutions also still work within the existing card payment rails (e.g. payment portal coming up on your phone where you enter your CC# or push the Apple/Google Pay button) rather than try to roll out a payment network from scratch. Time will tell whether customers are okay with that or eventually start demanding NFC at those places too.
Mrs. Majuki and I haven't eaten at too many restaurants in the last 3 months other than getting takeout or counter service, but only one of the restaurants that we went to back in June had a payment portal option by scanning a QR code. Unless there's better integration with the mobile payment systems, it's just easier to hand the card to the waitstaff. I paid online to provide the dp on this thread, but I wouldn't do it again.

The pandemic has favored customer facing terminals and accelerated contactless adoption at retail stores and counter service restaurants (and better card adoption in general), but I think once sit down restaurants reopen widely that it will be like it was before. Except for that one restaurant, the rest still brought the bill in a folio to the table as before and took the card away to process the payment.
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Old Nov 19, 20, 4:49 pm
  #8925  
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For those curious about what prints out on a Nordstrom receipt when using contactless:



(The terminal didn't turn on until the cashier pushed something on her end, so I have no idea if they went with Quick Chip when they turned on contactless or if the contact EMV side is still the same. The purchase was also too small to trigger PIN entry with my UNFCU credit card--assuming Nordstrom actually supports online PIN--so no idea there, either.)

Originally Posted by PrendellHiggins View Post
Confirmed! Just leaves two food places I visit without NFC: Wendy's and Mission BBQ
The Wendy's locations inside Pilots do, though. However, those use Pilot's POS and terminal setup and not Wendy's.

Anyway, I guess Wendy's is still going to push whatever they're pushing instead of NFC (I don't go there often, so I have no idea what kind of app/QR based thing they're doing--if anything.) Unfortunately, that's not really a surprise considering they only bothered with contact EMV after their data breach forced them to. At least most of the other retailers that had data breaches didn't make public comments against EMV beforehand, so I cut those a bit more slack.

EDIT: just realized that I think someone mentioned here before some app-based thing Wendy's is doing, but I don't recall offhand what it was.

Originally Posted by Majuki View Post
Mrs. Majuki and I haven't eaten at too many restaurants in the last 3 months other than getting takeout or counter service, but only one of the restaurants that we went to back in June had a payment portal option by scanning a QR code. Unless there's better integration with the mobile payment systems, it's just easier to hand the card to the waitstaff. I paid online to provide the dp on this thread, but I wouldn't do it again.
Island's (sit-down burger chain) was doing the QR code on receipt thing just before the initial stay at home order here in California. The portal it sent me to seemed to be hosted/run by NCR themselves and presumably linked with the restaurant's Aloha POS system. Unfortunately, it only allowed me to manually enter a CC#--no Apple/Google Pay support--so like you said, it was easier just to hand the server my card.

Anyway, Clover recently released a QR based system similar to what NCR's doing, so it's still possible it'll become more common over time. It also supported Apple Pay at launch and probably supports Google Pay by now too, though we haven't been to one yet to try it.

Originally Posted by Majuki View Post
The pandemic has favored customer facing terminals and accelerated contactless adoption at retail stores and counter service restaurants (and better card adoption in general), but I think once sit down restaurants reopen widely that it will be like it was before. Except for that one restaurant, the rest still brought the bill in a folio to the table as before and took the card away to process the payment.
You're probably right. For instance, there are a lot of restaurants around here that look like they could at least do contactless for takeout orders, but aren't doing so. In fairness to them, however, there's likely less contact between the staff and takeout customers as the ones in our neighborhood tend to have customers wait by the front entrance for their orders (while cards are taken elsewhere).

Long term, though, I suspect the majority of restaurants are going to go under anyway. The rest will likely permanently reduce their dependence on dine-in customers, too, making a lot of the discussion on them supporting contactless moot. I really hope I'm wrong on the former as that's a significant chunk of the economy going away.

Last edited by tmiw; Nov 19, 20 at 5:26 pm
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