Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Aug 20, 2018, 11:03 pm
#4546
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Yes it did update as one of my NCR BK's is now on the the ctls locator so I will go to that BK and see if they added pinpads yet or not. Correction a whole bunch of NCR BK locations are now on the contactless locator so I will visit one soon for sure and report back if anything has changed.
Aug 20, 2018, 11:07 pm
#4547
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Yes it did update as one of my NCR BK's is now on the the ctls locator so I will go to that BK and see if they added pinpads yet or not. Correction a whole bunch of NCR BK locations are now on the contactless locator so I will visit one soon for sure and report back if anything has changed.
Aug 20, 2018, 11:11 pm
#4548
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Is this the generic Toshiba UI: https://imgur.com/Sn458eU you are talking about?
Aug 20, 2018, 11:13 pm
#4549
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Wienerschnitzel with Micros POS has a pinpad now, a small PAX one. NFC works and it is EMV Contactless per the merchant copy of the receipt. Toward the top it says "Card Entry: Swiped" but it has App Name, AID, TC, and the very last line says "Entry: Chip."
This one has dine in and a counter facing the customers. I will have to see how the standard location is handling it (the one with just a walk up window or drive through).
This one has dine in and a counter facing the customers. I will have to see how the standard location is handling it (the one with just a walk up window or drive through).
Aug 20, 2018, 11:24 pm
#4550
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I read on reddit today that the In-N-Out locations in Las Vegas supposedly do contactless. There are even a couple on the MC map, though that in itself isn't a guarantee of anything.
However, maybe there is something to those reports this time. For one thing, the kitchen receipts there look significantly different from the rest of them (June 2018 vs. September 2017). Could the Las Vegas locations truly be using a separate system from the rest of the chain for some reason, one that just happens to have contactless? If so, are they testing for an eventual future rollout or is it just because something precluded use of the normal POS? Keep in mind that the linked photos are from standalone locations and not from the one that's in the LINQ casino.
However, maybe there is something to those reports this time. For one thing, the kitchen receipts there look significantly different from the rest of them (June 2018 vs. September 2017). Could the Las Vegas locations truly be using a separate system from the rest of the chain for some reason, one that just happens to have contactless? If so, are they testing for an eventual future rollout or is it just because something precluded use of the normal POS? Keep in mind that the linked photos are from standalone locations and not from the one that's in the LINQ casino.
Aug 21, 2018, 2:52 am
#4551
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Well Super Saver where I took that picture at uses a pure "Toshiba SurePOS Mod" so I wonder if that place you visited moved off Index and onto Toshiba software unless its showing Index still sometime during the idle screens if not then its possible.
Ok, well I found some interesting facts about SurePOS here: https://www.toshibacommerce.com/?uri...ns/surepos-ace such as this: "EMV: EMV Contactless (Early Tap) - Enables a shopper to tap their card prior to the tender key being pressed" I believe Super Saver/Russ Market supports EMV contactless but card types are identified by numbers such as '2209' for Visa contactless and no AID listed for chip or ctls transactions. I think they support EMV contactless as it looks like they support tap before the tender button is pressed. I also wonder when Safeway will finally support EMV contactless?
Oh I intend to report what I see as I'm going to BK for breakfast this morning so I post what I see today. If not enabled today it will be here soon I'm sure. I don't go to BK often either even though most BK besides the nearest big city, my city and another city about the same size use NCR while the rest all over use Sicom. Of course that may have changed I will see soon. Well here you go: https://imgur.com/sY12nJ0
Ok, well I found some interesting facts about SurePOS here: https://www.toshibacommerce.com/?uri...ns/surepos-ace such as this: "EMV: EMV Contactless (Early Tap) - Enables a shopper to tap their card prior to the tender key being pressed" I believe Super Saver/Russ Market supports EMV contactless but card types are identified by numbers such as '2209' for Visa contactless and no AID listed for chip or ctls transactions. I think they support EMV contactless as it looks like they support tap before the tender button is pressed. I also wonder when Safeway will finally support EMV contactless?
Last edited by scibot; Aug 21, 2018 at 5:51 am Reason: Added Toshiba info.
Aug 21, 2018, 9:50 am
#4552
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: AA, WN, UA, Bonvoy, Hertz
Posts: 2,491
I think we have reported the green dots appear on many Vons/Albertsons terminals in California, and I have tapped a number of times on the terminal. Currently, I have a promo on my Citi card for 5% groceries, so I am only doing chip at the moment, but when I go back to my AmEx after the promo expires.... I do get the Samsung Pay location prompt every time I visit a store location, but I don't use it much since I find the tap of the physical card much easier.
Last edited by rasheed; Aug 21, 2018 at 9:58 am
Aug 21, 2018, 10:31 am
#4553
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I think we have reported the green dots appear on many Vons/Albertsons terminals in California, and I have tapped a number of times on the terminal. Currently, I have a promo on my Citi card for 5% groceries, so I am only doing chip at the moment, but when I go back to my AmEx after the promo expires.... I do get the Samsung Pay location prompt every time I visit a store location, but I don't use it much since I find the tap of the physical card much easier.
Aug 21, 2018, 10:34 am
#4554
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
So Revolut is releasing a metal contactless card, which I guess is cool but I'd rather they focus on opening their services up to Americans again. I think that's maybe only the third metal contactless card that we know of? (The others are AmEx Platinum and that one card from Singapore.)
Also, I requested the Venmo contactless card out of curiosity and will post more about how it's programmed when I get it. I don't really expect any surprises, though; it's probably going to be signature-preferring on both interfaces with the normal common AID.
Also, I requested the Venmo contactless card out of curiosity and will post more about how it's programmed when I get it. I don't really expect any surprises, though; it's probably going to be signature-preferring on both interfaces with the normal common AID.
Aug 21, 2018, 3:33 pm
#4555
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Aug 21, 2018, 3:58 pm
#4556
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Nope its actually setup already and here is the VX820 screen: https://imgur.com/VUJuW3h its very close so Sicom BK's which I thought it said tap card as well as Please slide card. The logos are exactly the same as well as the same nfc indicators. I just used nfc and it worked great now if they would only get EMV/EMV contactless support.
Aug 21, 2018, 4:08 pm
#4557
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Wienerschnitzel with Micros POS has a pinpad now, a small PAX one. NFC works and it is EMV Contactless per the merchant copy of the receipt. Toward the top it says "Card Entry: Swiped" but it has App Name, AID, TC, and the very last line says "Entry: Chip."
This one has dine in and a counter facing the customers. I will have to see how the standard location is handling it (the one with just a walk up window or drive through).
This one has dine in and a counter facing the customers. I will have to see how the standard location is handling it (the one with just a walk up window or drive through).
I suppose it's possible that they're removable, but I'd have expected them to be outside at the walk-up windows.
Aug 21, 2018, 4:31 pm
#4558
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
As long as Contactless works I stopped caring which way they face. Thankfully at every restaurant where it’s facing the wrong way, I haven’t ran into trouble anymore now that Apple Pay is more commonplace. Usually they have it turned to me as soon as I say I’m paying with a phone. Still makes Contactless cards suck though as theyll insert it.
Aug 21, 2018, 4:34 pm
#4559
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
As long as Contactless works I stopped caring which way they face. Thankfully at every restaurant where it’s facing the wrong way, I haven’t ran into trouble anymore now that Apple Pay is more commonplace. Usually they have it turned to me as soon as I say I’m paying with a phone. Still makes Contactless cards suck though as theyll insert it.
Aug 21, 2018, 5:17 pm
#4560
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Demand is there. Issuers just need to...issue. It seems with some stores even QuickChip is getting rolled back to regular chip because they didn’t want to pay for it. Or regular chip is “fast enough”
Costco has it all now though. Quick Chip, contactlsss and swipe.