Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Aug 6, 2018, 11:17 pm
#4411
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Well, I suppose if you think its worth $95/year for a 2% card with contactless and no FTF, considering Citi Double Cash is 2% with no AF (but does have 3% FTF). I feel like Quicksilver or Savor are better options from Capital One than either of the Venture cards.
Or the Citi Costco Visa.
Or the Citi Costco Visa.
Aug 6, 2018, 11:20 pm
#4412
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BTW:
Apparently there were compliance requirements that were going to "cost millions" to implement solely for 1% or so of riders. (I'm guessing Visa's upcoming qVSDC mandate in 2019, though the linked Twitter thread doesn't mention the exact requirement.) Hopefully Portland's and Chicago's systems fare better.
Apparently there were compliance requirements that were going to "cost millions" to implement solely for 1% or so of riders. (I'm guessing Visa's upcoming qVSDC mandate in 2019, though the linked Twitter thread doesn't mention the exact requirement.) Hopefully Portland's and Chicago's systems fare better.
Last edited by tmiw; Aug 6, 2018 at 11:36 pm
Aug 7, 2018, 6:19 am
#4413
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,133
BTW:
https://twitter.com/rideuta/status/9...486336?lang=en
Apparently there were compliance requirements that were going to "cost millions" to implement solely for 1% or so of riders. (I'm guessing Visa's upcoming qVSDC mandate in 2019, though the linked Twitter thread doesn't mention the exact requirement.) Hopefully Portland's and Chicago's systems fare better.
https://twitter.com/rideuta/status/9...486336?lang=en
Apparently there were compliance requirements that were going to "cost millions" to implement solely for 1% or so of riders. (I'm guessing Visa's upcoming qVSDC mandate in 2019, though the linked Twitter thread doesn't mention the exact requirement.) Hopefully Portland's and Chicago's systems fare better.
Aug 7, 2018, 7:07 am
#4414
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Buy 3 sets of restaurant gift cards at Costco for $79.99 for $100 and you've paid for your membership for the year with the savings.
Aug 7, 2018, 9:33 am
#4415
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Aug 7, 2018, 9:44 am
#4416
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Their FAQs say the prepaid MasterCard (issued by Green Dot) will have extra fees; however, it is not enabled by default. You have to call and request that feature.
Aug 7, 2018, 9:50 am
#4417
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
BTW:
https://twitter.com/rideuta/status/9...486336?lang=en
Apparently there were compliance requirements that were going to "cost millions" to implement solely for 1% or so of riders. (I'm guessing Visa's upcoming qVSDC mandate in 2019, though the linked Twitter thread doesn't mention the exact requirement.) Hopefully Portland's and Chicago's systems fare better.
https://twitter.com/rideuta/status/9...486336?lang=en
Apparently there were compliance requirements that were going to "cost millions" to implement solely for 1% or so of riders. (I'm guessing Visa's upcoming qVSDC mandate in 2019, though the linked Twitter thread doesn't mention the exact requirement.) Hopefully Portland's and Chicago's systems fare better.
It seems most transit agencies are going the “use an app” route including LA’s upcoming Tap Card app with QR Codes.
Aug 7, 2018, 10:10 am
#4418
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From what I remember, it looked like Portland was still using MSD earlier this year (no amount listed in Wallet). I could be mistaken on that though.
In any case, I'd still like to see recent usage numbers for both of those systems. Mobile wallet support is probably safe for now, but I can see them discontinuing it next time they have to replace stuff if there's no indication of growth.
Aug 7, 2018, 10:34 am
#4419
Join Date: Oct 2014
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I get the optional part. I was thinking more along the lines of the fees involved if someone did want to use the prepaid functionality. It's probably not worth it for someone who wants a contactless card, never mind for the people who are normally the target market for prepaid cards (which is why Chicago discontinued that part of theirs).
From what I remember, it looked like Portland was still using MSD earlier this year (no amount listed in Wallet). I could be mistaken on that though.
In any case, I'd still like to see recent usage numbers for both of those systems. Mobile wallet support is probably safe for now, but I can see them discontinuing it next time they have to replace stuff if there's no indication of growth.
From what I remember, it looked like Portland was still using MSD earlier this year (no amount listed in Wallet). I could be mistaken on that though.
In any case, I'd still like to see recent usage numbers for both of those systems. Mobile wallet support is probably safe for now, but I can see them discontinuing it next time they have to replace stuff if there's no indication of growth.
Aug 7, 2018, 11:12 am
#4420
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Aug 7, 2018, 1:29 pm
#4421
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I think the trouble with contactless adoption by transit agencies is that most of their rides are regular users who probably already have transit agency's proprietary card so see no reason to use a contactless credit/debit/phone instead. It's the occasional rider and visitor who benefits from being able to use a contactless credit/debit/phone they already have instead of having to get the proprietary card, but those groups probably make up a small proportion of rides.
Aug 7, 2018, 2:59 pm
#4422
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I think the trouble with contactless adoption by transit agencies is that most of their rides are regular users who probably already have transit agency's proprietary card so see no reason to use a contactless credit/debit/phone instead. It's the occasional rider and visitor who benefits from being able to use a contactless credit/debit/phone they already have instead of having to get the proprietary card, but those groups probably make up a small proportion of rides.
Aug 7, 2018, 3:18 pm
#4423
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Portland caps fare at the price of a day pass. That’s pretty good. Maybe they’ll be like Phoenix and just get rid of transfers. Just only day passes.
Aug 7, 2018, 3:25 pm
#4424
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I thought the first tap of the day was good for the first ~2 hours, then the next one after that 2 hours gives you a day pass? I didn't think you needed transfers with that kind of system.
Aug 7, 2018, 3:26 pm
#4425
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Seattle coffee shop chain
Stopped by just now to buy some merchandise. Pulled out my phone because of the Square Pay logo, but clerk informed me "Customer's (thick) card broke the EMV/contactless machine, so the owner decided to go back to old-style swiping rather than buy a new unit."