Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Jun 2, 2018, 12:01 pm
#4111
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So Coco's decided to go with standalone Elavon terminals (VX520 + VX820 PIN pads). I would have thought that they'd do at least some form of POS integration but maybe they didn't have time or money to wait for certification. Had no problems using contactless either, plus tip was asked before the insert/tap prompt.
BTW Elavon apparently supports EMV contactless now, including possibly CDCVM ("no signature required" on the merchant receipt). Of course, since signature is no longer required, I don't know if it's really possible to tell anymore.
BTW Elavon apparently supports EMV contactless now, including possibly CDCVM ("no signature required" on the merchant receipt). Of course, since signature is no longer required, I don't know if it's really possible to tell anymore.
Jun 2, 2018, 7:44 pm
#4112
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BTW, I don't know if anyone else's mentioned this yet, but Sprouts has apparently gotten rid of signature altogether; an ~$80 chip transaction didn't need one just now. They also don't do the two-sided receipt thing anymore either.
Jun 2, 2018, 11:42 pm
#4113
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I'm in Victoria, BC right now for a weekend trip with Mrs. Majuki. Contactless hasn't been a problem other than the gift shop at the Fairmont Empress had a "no tap" note on their terminal. I paid cash for the small purchase, so I don't know if the terminal wasn't capable of contactless or if they refused contactless payments. However, when we were at the Butchart Gardens this afternoon my Google Pay transaction still required a signature even though it was EMV. A few other places have had a pen ready to go and have been surprised that my American card didn't need a signature.
Jun 3, 2018, 11:57 am
#4115
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Jun 3, 2018, 4:17 pm
#4116
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Samsung Pay is offering 9% cash back at Clarks Shoes. Frustrating in that whenever I've tried using MST there, it's consistently failed!
Jun 3, 2018, 9:08 pm
#4117
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Looks like IKEA is rolling out EMV and contactless more widely now. The screen said "tap or insert or swipe card" tonight but I had issues with the contactless actually reading (though I could have been impatient too).
Jun 3, 2018, 10:41 pm
#4118
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They need to word these better, but I suppose it’s better than not labeling it at all like a circle K does.
Jun 3, 2018, 10:55 pm
#4119
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They'd be labeled better if stores weren't allowed to run their own software on them. Of course, we're long past the point where that can realistically be imposed.
Jun 4, 2018, 11:00 am
#4120
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I just got a Samsung watch to replace my Apple Watch. Their software is definitely not anywhere near as polished as Apple's, IMO. Additionally, I had to manually download the Samsung Pay APK since the Gear app won't download it on account of the OnePlus running Android 8.1. 
Anyway, you can tell the MST is working by the sound the watch makes in a quiet room.
I'm working on trying to read it in cardpeek but no luck yet; GPO seems to fail when I try to add the bits to force the ODA stuff to output. I also have the feeling that I'm kinda late to the MST game considering how much I was able to use NFC with Google Pay over the last week.
Anyway, you can tell the MST is working by the sound the watch makes in a quiet room.
I'm working on trying to read it in cardpeek but no luck yet; GPO seems to fail when I try to add the bits to force the ODA stuff to output. I also have the feeling that I'm kinda late to the MST game considering how much I was able to use NFC with Google Pay over the last week.
Jun 5, 2018, 10:24 pm
#4121
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After further playing with both Google Pay and Samsung Pay, I was finally able to get the certificate data for the former--confirming that US issued Visa cards with it will work on the Underground. (Of course, someone will need to try it to confirm.)
Samsung Pay, on the other hand, I'm not so sure. I still had GPO errors in cardpeek with the same TTQ value used for Google Pay but I did eventually cause a DDOL (without certificates) to appear. I probably wouldn't rely on it for transit use as a result.
(BTW, doesn't Samsung use a Secure Element? If so, it's ironic that HCE-based Google Pay has no issues with certificates/ODA while Samsung Pay does.)
Samsung Pay, on the other hand, I'm not so sure. I still had GPO errors in cardpeek with the same TTQ value used for Google Pay but I did eventually cause a DDOL (without certificates) to appear. I probably wouldn't rely on it for transit use as a result.
(BTW, doesn't Samsung use a Secure Element? If so, it's ironic that HCE-based Google Pay has no issues with certificates/ODA while Samsung Pay does.)
Jun 6, 2018, 9:32 pm
#4122
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I went to the first Sprouts here, it is still 2 sided in Georgia. Unsure on the signature because this was a small purchase. I cant recall every having to sign there though.
Jun 6, 2018, 11:17 pm
#4123
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Anyway, I'm currently 1 for 3 with MST. It worked fine at CVS this morning, but I got "card read err2" at both Target and Ralphs later on. Any idea what could cause that error? I was holding the watch near the upper right corner of the MX925/MX915 all three times.
Jun 7, 2018, 1:59 pm
#4124
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Maybe it depends on the hardware they have installed and they stopped capable receipt printers at newer stores?
Anyway, I'm currently 1 for 3 with MST. It worked fine at CVS this morning, but I got "card read err2" at both Target and Ralphs later on. Any idea what could cause that error? I was holding the watch near the upper right corner of the MX925/MX915 all three times.
Anyway, I'm currently 1 for 3 with MST. It worked fine at CVS this morning, but I got "card read err2" at both Target and Ralphs later on. Any idea what could cause that error? I was holding the watch near the upper right corner of the MX925/MX915 all three times.
When you get card error, keep the phone near the reader. Usually, it will pick it up. With Target and Kroger, I usually put the phone right by the blue arrow and you won't get any issues. Put your phone at an angle to the arrows or right above it.
Walmart is the only store that gives me issues with MST on the first try. Debit card is always an issue. Credit cards are never an issue.
Jun 7, 2018, 3:46 pm
#4125
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The Sprouts by me is less than a year old. Same 2 sided receipts. Weird
When you get card error, keep the phone near the reader. Usually, it will pick it up. With Target and Kroger, I usually put the phone right by the blue arrow and you won't get any issues. Put your phone at an angle to the arrows or right above it.
Walmart is the only store that gives me issues with MST on the first try. Debit card is always an issue. Credit cards are never an issue.
When you get card error, keep the phone near the reader. Usually, it will pick it up. With Target and Kroger, I usually put the phone right by the blue arrow and you won't get any issues. Put your phone at an angle to the arrows or right above it.
Walmart is the only store that gives me issues with MST on the first try. Debit card is always an issue. Credit cards are never an issue.
It does seem to be less streamlined than if I were to use Samsung Pay on a phone; I have to long-press the top button followed by scrolling through cards and tapping the "Pay" button on the display. (Not to mention the setup hassles that required me to manually download the Samsung Pay APK since the Gear app refused to.)Also, I kinda figured it was something related to how close I was holding the watch. I tried again at Target today with the watch held much closer to the corner of the MX925 and it went through. Unfortunately magstripe processing at Target apparently got slower as well when they moved to EMV, but it's still not nearly as slow as the latter.
As for Walmart, I saw some stuff online that was mentioning that it's the iSC250 that's to blame for Samsung Pay issues, which concerns me because that means I might have issues at 7-Eleven too. Have you run into any issues there?
