Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Mar 3, 2018, 4:38 pm
#3556
Join Date: Oct 2014
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Posts: 3,251
Just hoping they would stop so people would stop being so “afraid to use them” and to make matters worse it bypasses EMV altogether as the server would swipe.
Mar 3, 2018, 4:56 pm
#3557
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I didn't pay attention to what they had in the back but that sounds about right. I just wish that the Chili's models let you order more than just desserts (though the servers do apparently take orders on some other tablet).
Mar 3, 2018, 5:48 pm
#3558
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
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They take orders on iPads connected to their Aloha system. Mind you the Ziosk also talks to their Aloha system to process the payment. So I’m just wondering how it all works as I work with Aloha all the time but never deployed a Ziosk before.
Mar 4, 2018, 2:53 pm
#3559
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Also, this showed before the payment screen:
Mar 4, 2018, 3:05 pm
#3560
Join Date: Oct 2014
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I went to Olive Garden for lunch today and saw iPP320s attached to the sides of their POSes with Darden branding on the idle screen. I don't know if they're used at all (they were making people use the Ziosks for card transactions a while ago). Contactless is MSD-only and results in the tip prompt appearing after tapping; you'd think they'd get people used to putting it first for when they eventually support EMV contactless.
Also, this showed before the payment screen:
Also, this showed before the payment screen:
Mar 4, 2018, 3:35 pm
#3561
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Mar 4, 2018, 6:12 pm
#3562
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I suspect that when the MC map finally updates, there'll be a lot of new places. Mainly because there's a significant number of brands listed on Ziosk's website. I'm not sure if all of Darden uses Ziosk though.
Here is a few things I've noticed recently:
Westlake Ace Hardware (aka Corporate Ace Hardware) is using Verifone Point now with MX915's while my local Ace still uses a totally different system with iSC250's.
My local Phillips 66 Commander locations accept contactless along with chip so that is indeed now area dependent. Of course the screen looked more like Sinclair while the ones without it only said Insert or Swipe Card with no list of items and the total on it.
Kohl's got brand new Toshiba touchscreens and it appears that they do seem to support EMV contactless now as the AID is listed but as you can see nothing else but no cvm is listed: https://imgur.com/vWTki6t . So does anyone else think this means that EMV contactless is actually enabled?
Last edited by scibot; Mar 5, 2018 at 12:51 am
Mar 4, 2018, 9:17 pm
#3563
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Mar 5, 2018, 3:49 am
#3564
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
I'm guessing most/all Olive Gardens support contactless+EMV now correct?
I have noticed is that Schnucks(A St Louis grocery store) does not accept chip at self checkout machines and I wonder has anyone else seen such a thing? I've seen self checkouts without nfc at Family Fare but not the other way around with chip not yet working. They did just get the manned registers working with chip in November 2017 so it will take extra time to get it working.
Good call on adding Quiktrips to the EMV site but leaving them unconfirmed as we have one location around here with chip but no others yet but they have it other locations in AZ but that is probably a test location like they have here. I'm sure its coming to all locations soon.
Mar 5, 2018, 9:15 am
#3565
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I'm guessing most/all Olive Gardens support contactless+EMV now correct?
I have noticed is that Schnucks(A St Louis grocery store) does not accept chip at self checkout machines and I wonder has anyone else seen such a thing? I've seen self checkouts without nfc at Family Fare but not the other way around with chip not yet working. They did just get the manned registers working with chip in November 2017 so it will take extra time to get it working.
I have noticed is that Schnucks(A St Louis grocery store) does not accept chip at self checkout machines and I wonder has anyone else seen such a thing? I've seen self checkouts without nfc at Family Fare but not the other way around with chip not yet working. They did just get the manned registers working with chip in November 2017 so it will take extra time to get it working.
As for Schnucks, it wouldn't surprise me if self checkout isn't a huge priority. Panera still doesn't have chip/contactless at their kiosks, for example.
Mar 5, 2018, 11:13 am
#3566
Join Date: Jul 2012
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It's possible those kiosks support PIN (and that it's just turned off on US Kiosks), as I was speaking to someone who is a manager at an Olive Garden here in Canada and she mentioned they would be getting kiosks in the 2nd half of this year and I can't imagine they're going to roll out terminals that don't support PIN.
Mar 5, 2018, 11:33 am
#3567
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It's possible those kiosks support PIN (and that it's just turned off on US Kiosks), as I was speaking to someone who is a manager at an Olive Garden here in Canada and she mentioned they would be getting kiosks in the 2nd half of this year and I can't imagine they're going to roll out terminals that don't support PIN.
Mar 5, 2018, 3:11 pm
#3568
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I went to Tender Greens today, specifically the one I mentioned earlier that looked like they had contactless readers. Looks like they indeed work but there are no logos on them whatsoever:
Receipt also has "R" for "Card Entry Method":
I also went to the car wash that had problems with my MC contactless card and I still had problems with tapping that card. Apple Pay with the same card didn't work either and in fact, doesn't show that tap was attempted in the Wallet app (I believe the PIN pad said "card not accepted" or something similar). Not sure what's going on there.
Receipt also has "R" for "Card Entry Method":
I also went to the car wash that had problems with my MC contactless card and I still had problems with tapping that card. Apple Pay with the same card didn't work either and in fact, doesn't show that tap was attempted in the Wallet app (I believe the PIN pad said "card not accepted" or something similar). Not sure what's going on there.
Mar 6, 2018, 5:23 pm
#3569
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Went out for the afternoon without my wallet -- forgot it.
I went to a local restaurant where I'd previously used Apple Pay. But today they said it's not working so I went elsewhere.
Picked up something at Uniqlo on Valley Fair Westfield, in the middle of Silicon Valley. Apple Pay worked there though the stupid terminal prompted for a signature. They even have some kind of tablets next to the POS, in order to encourage customers to enter their emails, so that they could email receipts, among other things. Of course they will spam you with ads.
Afterwards, I went to the food court. There was a place I hadn't seen, Koja Kitchen. Went and asked them if they took Apple Pay and they said no. They had some kind of tablet-based POS, not customer facing though I think they could spin it around. I've seen it at other places and such systems did have an NFC reader.
Point is, in the US, you still have to carry physical cards and that doesn't look to change any time soon.
I went to a local restaurant where I'd previously used Apple Pay. But today they said it's not working so I went elsewhere.
Picked up something at Uniqlo on Valley Fair Westfield, in the middle of Silicon Valley. Apple Pay worked there though the stupid terminal prompted for a signature. They even have some kind of tablets next to the POS, in order to encourage customers to enter their emails, so that they could email receipts, among other things. Of course they will spam you with ads.
Afterwards, I went to the food court. There was a place I hadn't seen, Koja Kitchen. Went and asked them if they took Apple Pay and they said no. They had some kind of tablet-based POS, not customer facing though I think they could spin it around. I've seen it at other places and such systems did have an NFC reader.
Point is, in the US, you still have to carry physical cards and that doesn't look to change any time soon.
Mar 6, 2018, 5:27 pm
#3570
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
I used Apple Pay at the most unlikely place. An emissions testing station! Let’s add all ADEQ places to the map! LOL!
They take EMV& Apple Pay via a POS integrated on a really long cord Ingenico iCT250. Again with a whole terminal that does nothing but take commands from the POS, oh well.
Also they did it properly and handed me the card reader as I sat in my car waiting for the emissions testing to be done.
Also, for those who don’t know, some states call this a smog check if you’re wondering.
I feel government offices are the ones all implementing EMV a correctly, and private merchants aren’t. Instead the private merchants are the ones installing terminals wrong.
They take EMV& Apple Pay via a POS integrated on a really long cord Ingenico iCT250. Again with a whole terminal that does nothing but take commands from the POS, oh well.
Also they did it properly and handed me the card reader as I sat in my car waiting for the emissions testing to be done.
Also, for those who don’t know, some states call this a smog check if you’re wondering.
I feel government offices are the ones all implementing EMV a correctly, and private merchants aren’t. Instead the private merchants are the ones installing terminals wrong.