CAPITAL ONE Stole 275,000+ Miles From Me
Dec 14, 2016, 1:44 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 6
CAPITAL ONE Stole 275,000+ Miles From Me
I signed up with a Capital One card a little over a year ago and have been accumulating miles with them since then..
I accumulated over 275,000 miles and then one day I went to use my card and it came back as declined and all my miles were gone when I logged in online.
I was notified they had closed the account and with that closure of the account they had a right not to provide the reward miles earned to me.
I had a lawsuit my company was involved in over 11 years ago.. although absolutely nothing has happened to me since I signed up with the account last year.
I have no late payments and did nothing on my end to cause my account closure. When I called on the phone, I talked to multiple individuals working there and supervisors and all of them refused to provide details.
They simply indicated they made the decision to close my account and the terms of service 'allowed' them to close my account at any time and not provide the miles to me.
This is just a warning for anyone considering a Capital One card. They can and will close your account for no reason and take your miles away if they see you have accumulated too many of them.
That's the only reason I am thinking, as I had a perfect standing account and always paid my bill on time, with a perfect credit score and rating. I have a $0 balance with them and they refuse to provide any reason at all as to why my account was canceled, other than 'they made an executive decision' to close the account.
Ask yourself. Is this a credit card company you want to use for miles, when they can cancel your account at anytime and steal your hard earned miles?
Atleast with the other mileage programs, you keep the miles. Capital One can close the account without notice and you lose them all.. 275,000 in my case, for nothing I did and no reason at all.
Attached is the generic letter I received.
--
I have never posted to this forum, although I have been viewing posts over the past few years as a guest.. Since I can understand the concern about legitimacy from this as this being my first actual post here, I have attached a letter that was sent to me confirming what I said above.
I accumulated over 275,000 miles and then one day I went to use my card and it came back as declined and all my miles were gone when I logged in online.
I was notified they had closed the account and with that closure of the account they had a right not to provide the reward miles earned to me.
I had a lawsuit my company was involved in over 11 years ago.. although absolutely nothing has happened to me since I signed up with the account last year.
I have no late payments and did nothing on my end to cause my account closure. When I called on the phone, I talked to multiple individuals working there and supervisors and all of them refused to provide details.
They simply indicated they made the decision to close my account and the terms of service 'allowed' them to close my account at any time and not provide the miles to me.
This is just a warning for anyone considering a Capital One card. They can and will close your account for no reason and take your miles away if they see you have accumulated too many of them.
That's the only reason I am thinking, as I had a perfect standing account and always paid my bill on time, with a perfect credit score and rating. I have a $0 balance with them and they refuse to provide any reason at all as to why my account was canceled, other than 'they made an executive decision' to close the account.
Ask yourself. Is this a credit card company you want to use for miles, when they can cancel your account at anytime and steal your hard earned miles?
Atleast with the other mileage programs, you keep the miles. Capital One can close the account without notice and you lose them all.. 275,000 in my case, for nothing I did and no reason at all.
Attached is the generic letter I received.
--
I have never posted to this forum, although I have been viewing posts over the past few years as a guest.. Since I can understand the concern about legitimacy from this as this being my first actual post here, I have attached a letter that was sent to me confirming what I said above.
Last edited by netuser900; Dec 14, 2016 at 2:54 pm
Dec 14, 2016, 2:05 pm
#3
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Silver
Posts: 186
Sorry to hear this. If there is really no reason for them to do this, it's shocking. I don't know much about Capital One, but this might well be a good reason to transfer points from a credit card to an airmiles programme as quickly as possible.
Dec 14, 2016, 2:08 pm
#4
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,953
Welcome to Flyertalk.
It's not a generic letter, it tells you that the legal action is the reason. Do you have a business card or a personal card?
Capital One "miles" are actually points which can be redeemed at a fixed rate of $0.01 each. They cannot be transferred to an airline program. 275,000 miles are worth $2,750.00 maximum.
It's not a generic letter, it tells you that the legal action is the reason. Do you have a business card or a personal card?
Capital One "miles" are actually points which can be redeemed at a fixed rate of $0.01 each. They cannot be transferred to an airline program. 275,000 miles are worth $2,750.00 maximum.
Dec 14, 2016, 2:11 pm
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 6
They specified a 'generic' reason in the letter and absolutely refused to provide any further details on it when pressed about it. 'Principal owner(s) have past, present or pending legal action'. As said, I had a lawsuit my company was involved in over 11 years ago is all I can think about..
So if you ever have been involved in a legal matter in the past, present or future, apparently Capital One thinks that's enough of a reason to close your account and steal your miles without providing any details or specifics at all.
When asked, they refuse to provide any details on this at all. I asked if there is anything I did wrong, any late payments, anything since I signed up with the card that caused this and they simply repeated to me 'We made an executive decision to close your account'.
I'm okay with them closing my account, as credit cards are a dime a dozen.. but for them to think it's okay to just do this and take my miles because the terms and services allows them to do it?
With AA, United, etc.. you keep the miles when something like this happens with the credit card provider. With Capital One, ALL your miles are gone and they take them away forever with no recourse.
So if you ever have been involved in a legal matter in the past, present or future, apparently Capital One thinks that's enough of a reason to close your account and steal your miles without providing any details or specifics at all.
When asked, they refuse to provide any details on this at all. I asked if there is anything I did wrong, any late payments, anything since I signed up with the card that caused this and they simply repeated to me 'We made an executive decision to close your account'.
I'm okay with them closing my account, as credit cards are a dime a dozen.. but for them to think it's okay to just do this and take my miles because the terms and services allows them to do it?
With AA, United, etc.. you keep the miles when something like this happens with the credit card provider. With Capital One, ALL your miles are gone and they take them away forever with no recourse.
Dec 14, 2016, 2:24 pm
#6
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,953
This is typical. They know that any explanation they offer will elicit counterarguments from you, but their decision has been made. You need to follow the process specified in the account terms (probably mediation) or file in small claims court to recover the value of the points.
Dec 14, 2016, 2:32 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 6
Unfortunately the terms and conditions agreement essentially allows these companies to do what they want and be protected. They know that. That's why they kept referencing me to the terms and conditions.
They said the terms and conditions 'allows them to cancel my account at anytime without any reason and withhold any rewards or points accumulated at their discretion'.
I will NEVER use Capital One again, as this is what can happen with them. When you use a card associated with a frequent flier program, the airline has to take away the points, regardless if your credit card account is canceled.. and the odds of that happening as long as I follow all the rules are essentially nil.
When using a reward card like Capital One, they can cancel the card for any reason at a whim and just take all your reward/miles away without any recourse on your end at any time.
How would you like to spend your life accumulating 275,000+ reward/miles points, planning to use them for a family trip that everyone is excited about in the near future.. only to wake up and be told they are gone because 'they can' (even though you were a perfect cardholder with a perfect credit score, without any negative marks on your credit report, having always made your payment on time..) and there is nothing you can do about it. Shame on Capital One to think this is acceptable behavior.
Capital One doesn't indicate this in their advertisements...
They said the terms and conditions 'allows them to cancel my account at anytime without any reason and withhold any rewards or points accumulated at their discretion'.
I will NEVER use Capital One again, as this is what can happen with them. When you use a card associated with a frequent flier program, the airline has to take away the points, regardless if your credit card account is canceled.. and the odds of that happening as long as I follow all the rules are essentially nil.
When using a reward card like Capital One, they can cancel the card for any reason at a whim and just take all your reward/miles away without any recourse on your end at any time.
How would you like to spend your life accumulating 275,000+ reward/miles points, planning to use them for a family trip that everyone is excited about in the near future.. only to wake up and be told they are gone because 'they can' (even though you were a perfect cardholder with a perfect credit score, without any negative marks on your credit report, having always made your payment on time..) and there is nothing you can do about it. Shame on Capital One to think this is acceptable behavior.
Capital One doesn't indicate this in their advertisements...
This is typical. They know that any explanation they offer will elicit counterarguments from you, but their decision has been made. You need to follow the process specified in the account terms (probably mediation) or file in small claims court to recover the value of the points.
Last edited by netuser900; Dec 14, 2016 at 2:55 pm
Dec 14, 2016, 2:50 pm
#8
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: MSP
Programs: DL-Polished Aluminum, Air Mobility Command-Chartreuse
Posts: 394
http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
The questions that many are likely asking include... (and you're under absolutely no obligation to divulge...) what prompted CapOne to query LexisNexis or other databases?
Dec 14, 2016, 2:59 pm
#9
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 6
I have no idea other than 'Principal owner(s) have past, present or pending legal action'. I've asked 5 supervisors there what this means and they refuse to elaborate.. only saying they made an 'executive decision'... etc.. etc..
Which essentially could mean a traffic ticket for all I know. 99% of the population in their life will have some 'past, present or pending legal action'.
I signed up with them a year ago and have used them for my small business to accumulate points, only to find one day the card coming back as declined one day..
They refuse to provide any reason or specifics other than letting me know they have a right to terminate any card and rewards at any time for any reason per se the 'terms and conditions I agreed too when signing up for the card'..
Which essentially could mean a traffic ticket for all I know. 99% of the population in their life will have some 'past, present or pending legal action'.
I signed up with them a year ago and have used them for my small business to accumulate points, only to find one day the card coming back as declined one day..
They refuse to provide any reason or specifics other than letting me know they have a right to terminate any card and rewards at any time for any reason per se the 'terms and conditions I agreed too when signing up for the card'..
IIRC others have also filed a complaint with the Consumer Finance Protection Bureau as both leverage during mediation/arbitration/etc and as a method of tracking CapOne's activities to see if there's a pattern.
http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
The questions that many are likely asking include... (and you're under absolutely no obligation to divulge...) what prompted CapOne to query LexisNexis or other databases?
http://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/
The questions that many are likely asking include... (and you're under absolutely no obligation to divulge...) what prompted CapOne to query LexisNexis or other databases?
Last edited by netuser900; Dec 14, 2016 at 3:05 pm
Dec 14, 2016, 3:16 pm
#10
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Check that 11-year old case to make certain that whatever it was, that it is closed, terminated, dismissed or whatever it should have been. Things resurface which should not.
Have you run a credit report with all three credit reporting agencies and then Lexis/Nexis for any potential legal actions which may have been filed against you or your company of which you may not be aware? For good measure, check your local courts as well.
Identity theft is always an issue and there are multiple examples of people who have had all manner of actions taken against them at changed addresses without their knowledge. It is always possible that as part of a scheme, there is now a default judgment or other against you or your business and that you have more to unravel than a simple CC mess.
People here on FT tend to focus on the issue in front of them, namely the points. You ought to have greater concerns.
Have you run a credit report with all three credit reporting agencies and then Lexis/Nexis for any potential legal actions which may have been filed against you or your company of which you may not be aware? For good measure, check your local courts as well.
Identity theft is always an issue and there are multiple examples of people who have had all manner of actions taken against them at changed addresses without their knowledge. It is always possible that as part of a scheme, there is now a default judgment or other against you or your business and that you have more to unravel than a simple CC mess.
People here on FT tend to focus on the issue in front of them, namely the points. You ought to have greater concerns.
Dec 14, 2016, 3:16 pm
#11
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 33
I just had all 4 of my accounts closed today as well. I have never missed a payment and run a ton through them every month for business. They said my activities are inconsistent for a small business. I am pretty sure its because i have gotten a lot of reward cashback from them.
Dec 14, 2016, 3:24 pm
#12
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 6
I am not familiar with anything that has happened since I signed up with the card, although that really is beside the point with what they did.
I know with most all other card mileage programs, if anything happens to the card, one still keeps their miles.
With Capital One, what they do not tell you, is that your points are not protected at all. It simply takes an 'executive' decision for one guy to decide to close your account for any reason at all and do what they want with your points and there is nothing you can do about it.
Even if you have a perfect credit rating with no late payments and have been a 100% perfect cardholder, you should definitely worry. It's very alarming that they think this is acceptable behavior and I would think everyone should be concerned about a company using these tactics to steal reward points from their loyal cardholders.
I sure never want to spend my life accumulating points only to worry every day about losing my points like this and will most assuredly never risk this happening with Capital One ever again.
I know with most all other card mileage programs, if anything happens to the card, one still keeps their miles.
With Capital One, what they do not tell you, is that your points are not protected at all. It simply takes an 'executive' decision for one guy to decide to close your account for any reason at all and do what they want with your points and there is nothing you can do about it.
Even if you have a perfect credit rating with no late payments and have been a 100% perfect cardholder, you should definitely worry. It's very alarming that they think this is acceptable behavior and I would think everyone should be concerned about a company using these tactics to steal reward points from their loyal cardholders.
I sure never want to spend my life accumulating points only to worry every day about losing my points like this and will most assuredly never risk this happening with Capital One ever again.
Check that 11-year old case to make certain that whatever it was, that it is closed, terminated, dismissed or whatever it should have been. Things resurface which should not.
Have you run a credit report with all three credit reporting agencies and then Lexis/Nexis for any potential legal actions which may have been filed against you or your company of which you may not be aware? For good measure, check your local courts as well.
Identity theft is always an issue and there are multiple examples of people who have had all manner of actions taken against them at changed addresses without their knowledge. It is always possible that as part of a scheme, there is now a default judgment or other against you or your business and that you have more to unravel than a simple CC mess.
People here on FT tend to focus on the issue in front of them, namely the points. You ought to have greater concerns.
Have you run a credit report with all three credit reporting agencies and then Lexis/Nexis for any potential legal actions which may have been filed against you or your company of which you may not be aware? For good measure, check your local courts as well.
Identity theft is always an issue and there are multiple examples of people who have had all manner of actions taken against them at changed addresses without their knowledge. It is always possible that as part of a scheme, there is now a default judgment or other against you or your business and that you have more to unravel than a simple CC mess.
People here on FT tend to focus on the issue in front of them, namely the points. You ought to have greater concerns.
Dec 14, 2016, 6:26 pm
#13
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,750
IIRC, either Chase or Citi has done that - closed accounts due to some legal issues involved the cardholders in the past. This is not Capital One specific.
As for the protection of your earned points in an In House program, Capital One again is NOT the only bank who does that - closed accounts and confiscated all the points. Citi is very infamous on that. Seems the only way people get back the worth of their lost points from Citi is thru Small Claims Court filing. Barclays and BofA also confiscate rewards in their in house program (Arrival+ in Barclays case, and Cash Reward / Travel Reward in BofA's case).
The only bank that plays it "fair" is Chase - it has changed its policy a year or 2 ago that now even if Chase closes all your accounts, you still have 30 days to use up your points. Chase even refund you the AFs on all the cards that have AF when Chase shuts you down. I guess Chase figures this is cheaper to them to avoid lawsuits / regulatory penalty etc after the bank was fined billions on other deceptive practices prior the financial crisis era.
However all other banks continue to play hard ball.
Your only way to get back the value of your points probably is thru small claims court / arbitration.
As for "I will never do business again with Capital One" - well they fire you as a customer to begin with - there would be slim to none chance they would accept your business again, that is the reality.
You should also know that other banks, Citi, BofA, Barclays, and US Bank too, all would do the similar things as Capital One just did - so you should also avoid them too. Chase would fire customers if it does not like the business the customers have, not just prior litigation, so you may also avoid Chase as well. It is unfair and unfortunate but that is the reality you would need to face.
As for the protection of your earned points in an In House program, Capital One again is NOT the only bank who does that - closed accounts and confiscated all the points. Citi is very infamous on that. Seems the only way people get back the worth of their lost points from Citi is thru Small Claims Court filing. Barclays and BofA also confiscate rewards in their in house program (Arrival+ in Barclays case, and Cash Reward / Travel Reward in BofA's case).
The only bank that plays it "fair" is Chase - it has changed its policy a year or 2 ago that now even if Chase closes all your accounts, you still have 30 days to use up your points. Chase even refund you the AFs on all the cards that have AF when Chase shuts you down. I guess Chase figures this is cheaper to them to avoid lawsuits / regulatory penalty etc after the bank was fined billions on other deceptive practices prior the financial crisis era.
However all other banks continue to play hard ball.
Your only way to get back the value of your points probably is thru small claims court / arbitration.
As for "I will never do business again with Capital One" - well they fire you as a customer to begin with - there would be slim to none chance they would accept your business again, that is the reality.
You should also know that other banks, Citi, BofA, Barclays, and US Bank too, all would do the similar things as Capital One just did - so you should also avoid them too. Chase would fire customers if it does not like the business the customers have, not just prior litigation, so you may also avoid Chase as well. It is unfair and unfortunate but that is the reality you would need to face.
Dec 14, 2016, 6:30 pm
#14
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,750
I am not familiar with anything that has happened since I signed up with the card, although that really is beside the point with what they did.
I know with most all other card mileage programs, if anything happens to the card, one still keeps their miles.
With Capital One, what they do not tell you, is that your points are not protected at all. It simply takes an 'executive' decision for one guy to decide to close your account for any reason at all and do what they want with your points and there is nothing you can do about it.
Even if you have a perfect credit rating with no late payments and have been a 100% perfect cardholder, you should definitely worry. It's very alarming that they think this is acceptable behavior and I would think everyone should be concerned about a company using these tactics to steal reward points from their loyal cardholders.
I sure never want to spend my life accumulating points only to worry every day about losing my points like this and will most assuredly never risk this happening with Capital One ever again.
I know with most all other card mileage programs, if anything happens to the card, one still keeps their miles.
With Capital One, what they do not tell you, is that your points are not protected at all. It simply takes an 'executive' decision for one guy to decide to close your account for any reason at all and do what they want with your points and there is nothing you can do about it.
Even if you have a perfect credit rating with no late payments and have been a 100% perfect cardholder, you should definitely worry. It's very alarming that they think this is acceptable behavior and I would think everyone should be concerned about a company using these tactics to steal reward points from their loyal cardholders.
I sure never want to spend my life accumulating points only to worry every day about losing my points like this and will most assuredly never risk this happening with Capital One ever again.
Dec 14, 2016, 8:13 pm
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 6
Yes, but would you not expect that if you kept your account in good standing, always paid on time and had a perfect credit score, that this would never be an issue?
Basically Capital One is saying, even if you are a perfect cardholder and do everything to be the best cardholder possible, they can at anytime, cancel your account and take away all your miles, regardless of anything you do and there's nothing you can do about it.
Points are a valued instrument of trade and the banks know that. 275,000 points is $2,750 that they have to pay out to the client.
So you are saying it's perfectly acceptable for them to promise me those points as long as I keep my account in good standing, as to which I did and then take them away without reason or cause?
How can you possibly say it's not the bank's fault? If I had $2,500 in the bank and the bank closed my account for no reason and kept the money, would you say that isn't the bank's fault either?
Basically Capital One is saying, even if you are a perfect cardholder and do everything to be the best cardholder possible, they can at anytime, cancel your account and take away all your miles, regardless of anything you do and there's nothing you can do about it.
Points are a valued instrument of trade and the banks know that. 275,000 points is $2,750 that they have to pay out to the client.
So you are saying it's perfectly acceptable for them to promise me those points as long as I keep my account in good standing, as to which I did and then take them away without reason or cause?
How can you possibly say it's not the bank's fault? If I had $2,500 in the bank and the bank closed my account for no reason and kept the money, would you say that isn't the bank's fault either?
You picked the WRONG program to accumulating your points. Not the bank's fault. You should have known that the "mile" is NOT the same "mile" in an airline's FFP - it is just a fancy name on the 1 penny worth of the "currency" you earned. Again, it works the same as Citi's TYP or Chase UR point or US Bank's Flexi point or Barclay's "mile" earned thru the Arrival+ card - all of them are not "protected" currency sit in the bank's own proprietary program. If you do not know that before you put in effort to earn such, then the onus is on you, not the bank.