Chalmers3716

Thanks for that. I was sort of coming to the same question--I don't really have a "physical" interaction with Chase, since everything aside from replacement cards is done online. So they'd really only find out if they A) chose to audit my spend, and realize that it's all overseas, or B) noticed that my payments were coming from a European IP address. I have no idea how likely either of those scenarios are.

I guess I could try keeping it open, but each month, after points post, immediately transfer them to a partner program. This would mean if they do decide to shut it down, I am "only" out one month's worth of points, but would also mean needing to guess as to which accounts I want to top off.

moe8555

Nobody will shut you down, from extensive personal experience with multiple Chase cards over a decade now (along with Citi, Amex, Barclays).

I've only heard an unverified story about Barclays shutting someone down for extensive foreign spend. Literally 95% of my spend is foreign, and it's an annual amount in the high five figures.

Again, no shutdown has happened to me with any issuer - including Chase.

I think the wise thing to do is not to go shouting to them that you are an expatriate, and ideally keep a U.S. address on record.

der_saeufer

Nearly all my spend is outside the US and I pay my bills online from a European IP address... but Chase clearly doesn't mind.

They just want their sweet, sweet interchange fees.

moe8555

Do they get U.S. interchange fees on spend in capped countries as is the case in Europe?

der_saeufer

The EU's interchange fee cap (and corresponding 2018 ban on card surcharges) applies only to EU-issued personal cards where there are three parties to the transaction (merchant, network, and issuing bank). It doesn't apply to business cards or any card issued outside the EU. And it doesn't apply to Amex at all--because the network and issuer are the same--which is why virtually no one takes it.

I don't know if they get the full fees that they get in the US (the Visa contract is probably different), but they definitely get more than the 0.3% cap.

invisible

The same. For both Ink Cash and CSP for last 7 years.
Is there any public info how much are those?

der_saeufer

Interchange fees from Visa US: https://usa.visa.com/support/small-b...ions-fees.html

From Visa Europe: https://www.visa.co.uk/about-visa/vi...terchange.html

And it looks like Visa is actually only taking 0.3% for card-present transactions where a non-EEA card is used at a merchant within the EEA, but they get 1.5% for CNP on foreign cards. (For European cards, the cap applies to all transactions).

What I don't know--and suspect I have no way of finding out because it's proprietary information between Visa and the issuer--is who's out the difference, i.e. does Visa pay Chase less when I buy a sandwich in Europe than when I buy a sandwich in the U.S., or does Chase get the same amount and Visa loses money?

I have a (non-Chase) cashback card that pays 2.5%, so someone is definitely getting screwed every time I go to the grocery store.

moe8555

And especially with categories that earn 3-5X on the various Citi/Chase cards... but I'd imagine Chase/other issuer would have shut me (or you) down after so many years if they were losing money?

rasheed

Yes, this is what happens. If the merchant pays a lower fee to Visa/Mastercard (due to EU rules, categories, negotiated contracts like Costco, etc.), Visa/Mastercard can only pass along a smaller amount back to the issuer (Chase, Citi, etc.).

Yes, if you only use the card at lower fee merchants, the issuer is eating it on the rewards in those cases. However, in most cases, they look at such issues globally and expect a mix of use between merchants that have lower costs/revenue and those that have higher fees (car rentals, hotels, online purchases CNP, etc.). I have not heard of a case of a card issuer cancelling a person's account because they use only low cost merchants. However, I have heard of issuers targeting specific merchants and lowering or not giving rewards granted in those situations (some discount stores and "cash equivalent" like merchants).

baroqen

I wouldn't even be all that concerned with this. I've mentioned that Im an expat to both Citi and Chase multiple times in the past and they've never had any issue with it. For my circumstances:

Expat over 6 years.
95%+ foreign spend, some years with 0 domestic.
Mailing address goes to a family member in the US. They get my cards/PP and send it to me, but I HAVE had Chase send me cards and/or PP to my foreign address in the past with no issues.
I've still been paying from my US bank accounts.

A couple of tips:

ALWAYS check local currency on the receipt. Never pay in USD in a foreign country. The rate is horrible.
Don't forget to call and make a high spend alerts. Especially if you make trips back to the US and do a bunch of concentrated shopping. In 6 years, Citi stopped my card for fraud only once while i was out of the country (despite very high spending at times), but both Citi and Chase have stopped my card 4-5 times in a DAY (before I knew about high spend alert) when we were back in the US (my wife goes on shopping sprees when we go back).

mlin32

I'm also an expat based overseas and still use US credit cards, generally few issues. The ones that can crop up are sometimes online transactions where you make a large purchase from a smaller merchant and it can get declined. But that's why I have multiple cards so usually one eventually works.

But my physical address is at a relatives' place in the US. And I still strongly recommend getting at least a debit card from a local bank of course.