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US Bank CC - options to Small Claims Court

US Bank CC - options to Small Claims Court

Old Dec 30, 15, 7:05 pm
  #1  
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Angry US Bank CC - options to Small Claims Court

Hi All,

Unfortunately, in August I signed up for what will be my last US Bank card (Korean air skypass 40k offer). I could go on about how .... they are compared to Amex, Chase, and even Barclays (horrible website, everything via mail, etc.), but the below is the worst.

I signed up for the 40k Skypass offer after carefully reviewing the terms and conditions, and met the spend in August 2015. It is now Dec, and the points still have not posted. The below is a summary of my communication with US Bank

1. The points post 6 to 8 weeks after I meet my spend, BUT they only communicate to Korean air on the 25th of each month, so this can add an additional 4 weeks (not sure how this is an excuse). I was offered 5k points in goodwill for them not following their T&C
2. There was an error in their system, they will post with the next cycle
3. Actually, I was given wrong information. I now need to wait as a manager reviews my case. Points only post 6 to 8 weeks after 120 days after my spend is met This is literally nowhere in my T&C. Again another apology, and if the manager approves my case they will send he points ASAP. BTW, the 25th of each month rule no longer applies here for some reason ??

I'm not optimistic at this point and curious how a process like small claims court would work. Everyday I'm watching flights to Asia climb $100s of dollars, and at some point I will need to purchase one out of pocket, which will include an added costs of this whole run around, and my time, and the 40k points I'm owed. I live in CA if that helps.

Appreciate any advice, even if it means I have little recourse
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Old Dec 30, 15, 7:40 pm
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sounds like too much work to take them to court for something like that. i personally wouldn't bother for that and other reasons but i suppose you aren't really asking for that in this thread.

best wishes,
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Old Dec 30, 15, 8:13 pm
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Originally Posted by runb4fun View Post
sounds like too much work to take them to court for something like that. i personally wouldn't bother for that and other reasons but i suppose you aren't really asking for that in this thread.

best wishes,
It was more of a general question. It may not apply to this particular case but wondering for the future, so I can make that determination going forward
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Old Dec 30, 15, 11:20 pm
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Try complaining to Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and BBB first.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 2:35 am
  #5  
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Originally Posted by theoracle111 View Post
Appreciate any advice, even if it means I have little recourse
Although it is within your right to act as you want to, I discourage you from filing a Small Claims case.

Your case is not terminal yet. At the minimum, the bank has not denied all the miles you are entitled. You should give the benefit of the doubt to the manager for that 6-8 weeks.

It does not seem you know about airline miles per your post.

US Bank does not control, nor have the authority to control SkyPass. What US Bank has promised is the opening bonus only. US Bank has not, does not, and will not guarantee your chance of award redemption with SkyPass.

To a court of law, what matters is the value of the miles (You can try perceived value. But I don't think the court and US Bank will ever accept your perceived value as it can't be proved to be accurate). Since KE miles are not for sale publicly, US Bank will then tell the court the wholesale pricing of the miles, or the face value determined by KE.

That's why if you push this case to the Small Claims Court, your chance of losing is pretty high; or a very small judgment even you win the case.

IANAL. However, I had succeed in the past in resolving a similar dispute.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 4:57 am
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Originally Posted by theoracle111 View Post
Hi All,

Unfortunately, in August I signed up for what will be my last US Bank card (Korean air skypass 40k offer). I could go on about how .... they are compared to Amex, Chase, and even Barclays (horrible website, everything via mail, etc.), but the below is the worst.

I signed up for the 40k Skypass offer after carefully reviewing the terms and conditions, and met the spend in August 2015. It is now Dec, and the points still have not posted. The below is a summary of my communication with US Bank

1. The points post 6 to 8 weeks after I meet my spend, BUT they only communicate to Korean air on the 25th of each month, so this can add an additional 4 weeks (not sure how this is an excuse). I was offered 5k points in goodwill for them not following their T&C
2. There was an error in their system, they will post with the next cycle
3. Actually, I was given wrong information. I now need to wait as a manager reviews my case. Points only post 6 to 8 weeks after 120 days after my spend is met This is literally nowhere in my T&C. Again another apology, and if the manager approves my case they will send he points ASAP. BTW, the 25th of each month rule no longer applies here for some reason ??

I'm not optimistic at this point and curious how a process like small claims court would work. Everyday I'm watching flights to Asia climb $100s of dollars, and at some point I will need to purchase one out of pocket, which will include an added costs of this whole run around, and my time, and the 40k points I'm owed. I live in CA if that helps.

Appreciate any advice, even if it means I have little recourse
US Bank has an arbitration provision in their contracts. Send them a notice to initiate arbitration with JAMS with a claim in excess of $5,000. See if that gets someone's attention.

Here are the JAMS forms. Make sure you click the box that it is a consumer arbitration. Send a copy to the CEO's office naming him as the respondent and a copy to JAMS. If they don't contact you and/or pay the JAMS retainer they are in breach of contract and you have another claim. Be as vague as possible in the description of the dispute.

http://www.jamsadr.com/files/Uploads...ion_Demand.pdf

Last edited by Los_Pepes; Dec 31, 15 at 5:04 am
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Old Dec 31, 15, 8:16 am
  #7  
 
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Originally Posted by theoracle111 View Post
I'm not optimistic at this point and curious how a process like small claims court would work. Everyday I'm watching flights to Asia climb $100s of dollars, and at some point I will need to purchase one out of pocket, which will include an added costs of this whole run around, and my time, and the 40k points I'm owed. I live in CA if that helps.

Appreciate any advice, even if it means I have little recourse
You might want to start by reading your cardholder agreement, specifically any section that refers to mandatory arbitration.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 3:42 pm
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Originally Posted by Los_Pepes View Post
US Bank has an arbitration provision in their contracts.
Originally Posted by SCEflyer View Post
You might want to start by reading your cardholder agreement, specifically any section that refers to mandatory arbitration.
Both of you should read the agreement rather than OP.

In the mandatory arbitration clause of most banks, small claims actions are specifically excluded as soon as it does not exceed the court's jurisdiction. In the case of US Bank, the following language can been seen :

This does not apply to any Claim in which the relief sought is within the jurisdictional limits of, and is filed in, a small claims court.
OP is, in fact, within his/her rights to file the proposed action in the Small Claims Court.

BTW - In OP's case, the jurisdictional limit is $10,000.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 5:45 pm
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Originally Posted by garykung View Post
Both of you should read the agreement rather than OP.

In the mandatory arbitration clause of most banks, small claims actions are specifically excluded as soon as it does not exceed the court's jurisdiction. In the case of US Bank, the following language can been seen :



OP is, in fact, within his/her rights to file the proposed action in the Small Claims Court.

BTW - In OP's case, the jurisdictional limit is $10,000.

I don't think anyone is debating whether or not the OP can file in small claims. If the bank has a provision that it goes to small claims when within $10,000, simply file a claim with JAMS in excess of $10,000. If they disagree with the amount, then guess what? You can arbitrate that as well. The arbitration provision in the agreement has the broadest possible meaning.

Why would the OP pay a court filing fee when US Bank is contractually bound to pay the consumer filing fee for Arb? US Bank knows that that fee would be the smallest they would pay in a very expensive and time consuming process.
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Old Dec 31, 15, 9:36 pm
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1. See the advice about filing with the CFPB first. This will most likely resolve the issue.

2. Seriously, find a source that discusses redeeming KE miles.

3. The part about U.S. Bank being favorably compared to the companies you mention is laughable. US Bank service is generally poor.
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Old Jan 1, 16, 9:06 am
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Originally Posted by garykung View Post
Both of you should read the agreement rather than OP.

In the mandatory arbitration clause of most banks, small claims actions are specifically excluded as soon as it does not exceed the court's jurisdiction. In the case of US Bank, the following language can been seen :



OP is, in fact, within his/her rights to file the proposed action in the Small Claims Court.

BTW - In OP's case, the jurisdictional limit is $10,000.
Are you a bit touchy? All that either of us suggested was that the OP read the agreement; we didn't make any statement or render an opinion as to its content. Also, it is apparent that the OP never read the agreement at the time of his post.

I am sure the OP appreciated the research that you conducted on his/her behalf.
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Old Jan 1, 16, 1:53 pm
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Originally Posted by Los_Pepes View Post
I don't think anyone is debating whether or not the OP can file in small claims. If the bank has a provision that it goes to small claims when within $10,000, simply file a claim with JAMS in excess of $10,000. If they disagree with the amount, then guess what? You can arbitrate that as well. The arbitration provision in the agreement has the broadest possible meaning.

Why would the OP pay a court filing fee when US Bank is contractually bound to pay the consumer filing fee for Arb? US Bank knows that that fee would be the smallest they would pay in a very expensive and time consuming process.
In general, is it better for someone to file in Small Claims Court or Arb?

You assumed that US Bank would be paying the consumer filing fee. But wouldn't I have to pay for everything else in arbitration? Isn't this more expensive or me than SCC?
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Old Jan 1, 16, 2:57 pm
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Originally Posted by theoracle111 View Post
In general, is it better for someone to file in Small Claims Court or Arb?

You assumed that US Bank would be paying the consumer filing fee. But wouldn't I have to pay for everything else in arbitration? Isn't this more expensive or me than SCC?
US Bank's own contract states that they pay for ALL fees in private arbitration. They will even pay your filing fee which is about $250 for JAMS. Though the contract specifically states that they won't pay your lawyer fees, I believe California law allows the consumer to recoup lawyer fees but not the bank. You don't need a lawyer however, the streamlined rules are fairly straightforward.

Ultimately you don't want to actually go to arbitration. You do however want US Bank to believe that you are locked and loaded to go into arbitration. This is because they know that it will cost them tens of thousands of dollars if you go through with it. I would fill out the JAMS forms (takes all of a minute) and send a copy to JAMS and a copy to US Bank asking them to pay the consumer fee along with the retainer. Once they see they are going to pay $10,000 for a points dispute I would suspect they would want to talk to you.
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Old Jan 1, 16, 3:56 pm
  #14  
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Originally Posted by Los_Pepes View Post
US Bank has an arbitration provision in their contracts. Send them a notice to initiate arbitration with JAMS with a claim in excess of $5,000. See if that gets someone's attention.

Here are the JAMS forms. Make sure you click the box that it is a consumer arbitration. Send a copy to the CEO's office naming him as the respondent and a copy to JAMS. If they don't contact you and/or pay the JAMS retainer they are in breach of contract and you have another claim. Be as vague as possible in the description of the dispute.

http://www.jamsadr.com/files/Uploads...ion_Demand.pdf
Originally Posted by Los_Pepes View Post
I don't think anyone is debating whether or not the OP can file in small claims. If the bank has a provision that it goes to small claims when within $10,000, simply file a claim with JAMS in excess of $10,000. If they disagree with the amount, then guess what? You can arbitrate that as well. The arbitration provision in the agreement has the broadest possible meaning.

Why would the OP pay a court filing fee when US Bank is contractually bound to pay the consumer filing fee for Arb? US Bank knows that that fee would be the smallest they would pay in a very expensive and time consuming process.
Here we go again with the goofy arbitration advice.

A delay with a 40k SkyPass bonus is worth in excess of $5,000 or $10,000? Absurd, even as a bluff.

Question for the OP: Have you even tried contacting the bank's executive office? Jumping from a problem with frontline CSRs to small claims court is a rather big leap. Most of these issues are easily resolved once one gets in touch with the right people.
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Old Jan 1, 16, 4:01 pm
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Originally Posted by jsk1973 View Post
Here we go again with the goofy arbitration advice.

A delay with a 40k SkyPass bonus is worth in excess of $5,000 or $10,000? Absurd, even as a bluff.
Whether or not you think it is absurd is totally irrelevant. What is relevant is what an arbiter believes and it will cost US Bank 5 figures to find that out.

Also, who stated that a 40k bonus is worth $5-$10k? Wasn't me. I only said that my claim against US Bank would be in excess of $10k on my JAMS forms.

Edit: It is safe to assume that this will be the only reply I make to you jsk1973 on this thread. This thread is not about you. My intention was to provide the OP with an avenue of recourse he/she previously did not know existed. If you have something that might help him/her please enlighten us.
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