Foreign exchange rates discussion [FOREX]--all cards

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Jun 28, 2016, 7:53 am

#361

Kremmen

Original Poster

Join Date: Feb 2001

Programs: IHG Diamond, HH Diamond, BW Diamond Select, Accor Silver, Marriott Gold

Posts: 4,228

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolexel

In my experience, none of this is true. Amex transactions post with the same date as the purchase date (at least, on my SPG Amex they do). Their rate use the business day or previous business day. The rate is definitely not the same as oanda.com's rate. Never. I've had Amex CSR's tell me to refer to oanda.com for rates, but it's completely irrelevant and I don't know why they mislead customers that way when it is blatantly false.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tr561

No way was the rate 150 on June 25th when my transaction was done with hotel in Scotland. I made the purchase at 8pm EST on the 24th and transaction was completed on 25th. It's almost like AMEX set all of their rates at 12:01 on the 24th, several hours before referendum was even done.

Exactly as you'd expect. See the "on the conversion date or the prior business day" part of the T&C. I would think that those who care would have waited a few days before putting big GBP charges on their Amex cards, or use a card that will use a later posting date rather than the transaction date. Nobody would be phoning to complain on the days when the currency moves in the other direction, so it's rather opportunistic, at the very least, to complain about Amex doing exactly what they always do, as per their T&C.

Jun 28, 2016, 7:56 am

#362

tr561

Join Date: Aug 2015

Posts: 47

Understood, so the fact they select the first hour of the day (1am/6am, right before results), and not an average is cool ? Sterling dropped through the floor for the other 22 hours of the day...

Jun 28, 2016, 10:26 pm

#363

SingaporeDon

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: SIN

Programs: SQ, UA, Delta, BMI(RIP), Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Diamond (Thanks Amex) Hyatt Discov

Posts: 1,942

Quote:

Originally Posted by SingaporeDon

Post the fall in the value of GBP after the Brexit vote on Thursday, decided to charge two GBP 2,200 charges each to Barclays Arrival/Mastercard and Chase UA/Visa.

The transactions were put through by phone with merchant on Saturday, 25 June

The interbank FX rate on Friday 24 June had closed around 1.365

Chase UA/Visa charge for the same amount GBP 2,200 went through at a rate of GBP1 = $1.46, better than Barclays/Mastercard, but still way higher than interbank.

Datapoint. Chase UA ended up charging GBP fx @ 1.375. They said they use posting date for FX. Not too bad now

I wonder what is going on with AMEX using 1.50. I guess this is just to create a buffer due to GBP volatility but they will finally charge based on rate on date of posting.

Jun 28, 2016, 10:30 pm

#364

SingaporeDon

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: SIN

Programs: SQ, UA, Delta, BMI(RIP), Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Diamond (Thanks Amex) Hyatt Discov

Posts: 1,942

Quote:

Originally Posted by EmailKid

This GBP exchange on Friday may be the only time DCC would work in consumer's favor ...

I tried that on SQ website, but DCC was still worse!!!SQ was using 1.26 to convert USD to GBP yesterday

Jun 28, 2016, 10:47 pm

#365

buschoi

Join Date: Feb 2009

Location: SEA

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Posts: 1,704

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolexel

I too opened disputes for all my transactions since this past weekend. Amex rates are based on when the transaction posted, not the purchase date. And the rate they use is the one on oanda.com for the date of posting.

The CSR went thru mine and said all disputes got auto-resolved and the adjustments got posted to the system. She said it will take 48 hours to see them in the Amex app / website.

Some disputes I believe take 30+ days but some are automatically resolved after they submit. Ask CSR to open a currency rate discrepancy dispute in case they aren't aware what to do.

I called after reading your experience. The CSR first said the rate was based on the oanda rate on the transaction date. When I told him it was different from what AMEX charged me, he put me on hold for a few minutes and then told me they used the government rate of the prior business day. There was nothing he could do.

I mentioned others' (your) experience and asked to open a currency rate discrepancy dispute. He put me on hold for a few minutes again and then said he would do a manual adjustment for me. He asked me for the oanda rate, did a manual calculation for the difference, and posted it as a statement credit. He said there is no way the system could re-calculate the rate and adjust the difference automatically. I get that he implied this was a one-time exception because I have had the AMEX for many years.

Not a lot of money, but he knowledged it was out of principle, and it really does not happen very often.

Thank you for your pointer!

Last edited by buschoi; Jun 28, 2016 at 10:53 pm

Jun 29, 2016, 9:12 am

#366

MNSWEEps

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Los Angeles California

Posts: 1,395

I am very happy to report that my charges finally posted this morning at the lower rate on my Chase Sapphire.

Bought 2 , one way tickets BOM - LAX on Etihad through expedia.co.uk

Transaction - 06/24 - $1259 temporary
Posted - 06/29 - $1143.46 final (Two $571.73 charges)

Jun 29, 2016, 10:38 am

#367

mia

Moderator

Join Date: Jun 2003

Location: Miami, Mpls & London

Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold

Posts: 48,954

Quote:

Originally Posted by buschoi

...then told me they used the government rate of the prior business day.

This should be all the evidence anyone needs to demonstrate that the CSR's are inventing explanations to end the call. This is plucked right out of the terms, but does not apply to GBP/USD transactions. It doesn't reflect American Express policy or practice, it's just a coping strategy devised on the call center floor.

Jun 29, 2016, 4:21 pm

#368

kingofmath

Join Date: Jun 2014

Posts: 15

Here are some data points showing MC, VISA, and Amex being a hair apart from one another, and not always directionally consistent:

http://hungryforpoints.boardingarea....vs-mastercard/

Jun 30, 2016, 2:52 pm

#369

AONwheels

Join Date: Mar 2015

Posts: 79

I just had a recent purchase using VISA €30 converted to $33.26 when posted on 6/28/16 which corresponds exactly (within the penny) to VISA posted conversion rate of 1.108689 for that date. BankAmericard Travel Rewards VISA.

The MasterCard published rate for EUR to USD for that same posting date is 1.110700. Certainly not better. Just a hair worse - it would have cost me 6 cents more.

Don't understand what the fuss is all about.

I know it's just one example. But there has been quite a bit of EUR/USD volatility lately. If the transaction had posted over the weekend, the conversion rate would not have been as good. See below.

I do notice that if the transaction had posted on 6/27/16 instead, the VISA rate would have been worse - 1.136462 versus 1.108000 for MasterCard. The Friday prior (day after Brexit vote) had a big swing in the exchange rates, and Friday established Monday's rate for VISA. Whereas MasterCard clearly used some other criteria for its rate. So perhaps it's days with a lot of currency volatility where MasterCard is better than VISA.

https://usa.visa.com/support/consume...lculator.html/
https://www.mastercard.com/global/currencyconversion/

Jun 30, 2016, 2:57 pm

#370

AONwheels

Join Date: Mar 2015

Posts: 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingofmath

Here are some data points showing MC, VISA, and Amex being a hair apart from one another, and not always directionally consistent:

http://hungryforpoints.boardingarea....vs-mastercard/

Thanks for that link.

Jul 1, 2016, 12:04 pm

#371

tr561

Join Date: Aug 2015

Posts: 47

Of course i just got my refund back on Amex and it's $699 when two days later i was charged $757 by Amex. So when booking they took it to me with the .150, and then cancelling it, they took it to me by finding the lowest possible rate. What a cluster...

Quote:

Originally Posted by tr561

Just got off phone with Amex, they said everyone in the world is calling about this today. He said he could change it 1.39 (avg of all day Friday), but even that is more than when i was actually charged by hotel (which was Saturday the 25th). He said he could either do a dispute and get the money adjusted that way, but it was possible hotel would cancel reservation at that point, or i could call hotel and cancel/refund, and then immediately ask to them re-book. I chose the latter and the nice gentleman at the hotel did the transaction. I then used my City Platinum just for the hell of it...

Last edited by tr561; Jul 1, 2016 at 12:12 pm

Jul 1, 2016, 12:36 pm

#372

mia

Moderator

Join Date: Jun 2003

Location: Miami, Mpls & London

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For reference here are the GBP/USD rates published by American Express for the past week. These rates are on the International Dollar Card site, and to my knowledge they are not accessible unless you happen to have one of those cards:

W 22 Jun .676 = 1.479...
T 23 Jun .676

F 24 Jun .668 = 1.497...
S 25 Jun .668
S 26 Jun .668

M 27 Jun .714 = 1.401...
T 28 Jun .741 = 1.349...
W 29 Jun .744 = 1.344...
T 30 Jun .738 = 1.355...
F 01 Jul .740 = 1.351...

Quote:

You can use the Foreign Transaction Calculator below to provide an indication of the rate you will receive when using your American Express Card to make purchases in a different currency.

The reference exchange rate is refreshed each morning for foreign currency transactions that are processed until the next day's rates are made available. The rate that is provided may not necessarily be the rate that will be applied to transactions that you make during that period. The rate applied to transactions that you make will be the rate applicable during the period when we receive the transaction for processing. Fluctuations may be significant. For more information, please refer to your terms and conditions.

Jul 3, 2016, 1:32 am

#373

stvr

Join Date: Mar 2014

Location: SJC/BUR

Programs: Hyatt Diamond, IHG Platinum, Hilton Gold, Club Carlson Gold, Starwood Gold

Posts: 1,088

Japan

Just got back from a big trip to Japan, where we did a lot of A/B/C testing to see which card gives the lowest rates. Here are my results, by day:

6.9
MC — 106.65 JPY/USD
Amex — 106.49 JPY/USD

6.10
MC — 104.31 JPY/USD
Visa — 103.61 JPY/USD

6.11
MC — 106.15 JPY/USD
Amex — 106.64 JPY/USD
Visa — 102.12 JPY/USD

6.12
MC — 105.77 JPY/USD
Amex — 106.15 JPY/USD
Visa — 105.68 JPY/USD

6.14
MC — 105.80 JPY/USD
Amex — 105.47 JPY/USD
Visa — 103.78 JPY/USD

6.15
MC — 103.57 JPY/USD
Amex — 105.62 JPY/USD
Visa — 103.66 JPY/USD

Very pleased with my Amex. Visa threw some dud rates in there. Some of these differences were 2% or larger!

Jul 5, 2016, 5:14 am

#374

zyxlsy

Join Date: Feb 2013

Location: Irvine CA & PEK

Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S

Posts: 664

Quote:

Originally Posted by stvr

Just got back from a big trip to Japan, where we did a lot of A/B/C testing to see which card gives the lowest rates.

Wonder why some of your MC rates are worse than Visa.

I had good experience with Amex for JPY/USD as well.

Don't know whether that'll continue after August 2016 when AE switch its conversion vendor to AE Exposure Management Ltd.

Last edited by mia; Jul 5, 2016 at 7:30 am Reason: Prune quotation

Aug 2, 2016, 2:18 am

#375

stvr

Join Date: Mar 2014

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Posts: 1,088

Just got back from a big Europe trip where I put a bunch of my cards head to head. Mostly MC vs. Amex because Visa is consistently worse. Threw in a couple of Visa charges just to prove my point.

Date in Currency — Differences
6.30 in GBP — MC and Amex were exactly the same, Visa was 0.4% worse
7.1 in GBP — MC beat Amex by 1.2%, MC beat Visa by 0.2%
7.2, 7.3, 7.4 in GBP — MC and AMEX were exactly the same, Visa was 0.4% worse
7.5 in DKK — Amex beat MC by 0.8%

Norway — couldn't find anywhere that accepted Amex in Norway!

7.8 in NOK — MC beat Visa by 1.2%

Sweden — no Amex acceptance in Sweden, didn't even whip out my Visa I was so disgusted with it