So would you say you're against having two cards with an AF (ie the CSP and an Amex MR card)? I'm just having a lot of difficulty weighing the pros and cons.

There is no need to pay an annual fee to participate in American Express Membership Rewards. Apply for an Everyday card. The core issue is not the fees, but rather accumulating points which are not transferrable to your primary airline.

No, I wasn't saying what I for or against at all. I was explaining what I have done as an example of some people having some transferable points temporarily rather than permanently.

The big point you seem to be missing is that most people cannot earn as many points with even one or two years of spending only on one card as they can in a couple months with the bonus from a new card signup. So many people sign up for transferrable points cards, earn the bonus, transfer the bonus, cancel the card, then a couple years later repeat. They thus earn way more points doing that than getting one card and holding it. They're not so much cancelling to avoid the annual fee, as cancelling so as to qualify in a couple years for doing it all over again.

Now, having said that, that is no longer possible with Amex personal cards:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...etime-usa.html

So my example from the past (getting an Amex Gold card twice, transferring the 25k signup bonus points, then cancelling it) is not repeatable.

But Chase UR cards are still (slowly) churnable. So you can get a Chase Sapphire (no AF), keep it (for the rotating benefits), get a Chase Ink Plus, cancel the CSP, then a couple years later get another CSP, cancel the Ink Plus, and slowly repeat.

I'm not saying you should do that. Only you know your own credit history, only you can decide if churning credit cards is right for you, but you asked what other people do, and that's one thing that other people do to maximize their transferrable points earnings.

Another thing other people do is Manufactured Spending, but that's such a big area that there's a whole separate forum devoted to it:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...-spending-719/


... Meanwhile, as to Amex Blue, I think you got that confused with Amex Everyday. Both are no-AF cards, but Blue is an old (and no longer actively promoted) no-fee MR card, and is much more limited in its MR implementation than the new Amex Everyday card is. (Blue doesn't let you transfer to partners, Everyday does.)

There is also a card with a confusingly similar name: Blue Cash Everyday. This card is not the same as the Everyday Card, and does not participate in any version of Membership Rewards.

Solid Credit Card Combo?
 

Hey all, just wanted a quick audit of my plan going forward with regards to miles. To preface, I'm a graduate student living in Boston, so my spending is limited. I travel back and forth between coasts around 3-4 times per year and try to travel internationally either every year or every other year. I also travel on Amtrak 3 times a month between Boston and New York.

So recently, I have been approved for the CSP, the Amex Everyday Preferred, and the Arrival+. My plan was to use the CSP to get 2x points on travel and dining. Then, I planned on using the Amex Everyday Preferred for all of my grocery purchases (3x). Then, the rest of my spending goes on the Arrival+ (2x on all purchases). This includes $1000 MS for rent through Amex Serve.

I also have around 70k in United Miles and 20k in Amtrak miles.

Does anyone forsee any problems with the scheme? I'm thinking of just swallowing the annual fees when they come around because the benefits may outweigh the annual fees. What do you all think?

I have a hard time believing that all three annual fees would be justifiable, especially for someone with limited spending.

According to my calculations, I would only need to spend $316 in dining/travel and $250 in groceries per month to make the AF worth it. This is calculated based on the lowest valuation of the points.

Depending on how much you value Membership Rewards points, I'd actually suggest using the EDP for the rest of your spending instead of Arrival+. With at least 30 transactions per month you get a 50% bonus on all points earned, bumping grocery up to 4.5X and 1.5X on everything else (I'd take 1.5 MR points over 2.2% cash back).

I might actually add Freedom, because there is a promotion going on and earn that 20k UR (+2.5K when add a AU). That spending requirement is not high at all (500USD in 3 months) and I think it will provide you with some flexibility. It also have no AF.

Personally, if I were in your situation where UA and Amtrek are the preference, MR points are actually not useful at all as it is not a transfer partner. I might as well use the Arrival to get 2.2cpm instead. But surely, if you are planning to expand the usage in the future, banking the MR points to start might be a feasible option.

HTH
-Pete

Check your math on that. The lowest valuation of the points is...1cpp?

$95 AF for EDP, and you're getting 3% on groceries vs 2% on an all-around card. So you need to spend 95 / .01 = $9500 / 12 = $792 on groceries per month to make it worth it.

$95 AF on CSP will never be worth it at lowest valuation compared to a 2% card.

Have you considered just a 2% card for all your spend? If you spend > $40K year (or a significant portion of your spend is with merchants that don't take Amex), go with Arrival. If < $40K, go with Fidelity Amex. By the same token, even if you go with a multi-card solution, you need to be putting $40K+ on Arrival for it to offset the AF compared to Fido Amex.

If you really want to maximize with multiple cards, consider Amex Blue Cash Preferred for grocery @ 6%. EDP @ 3x doesn't match that at any conservative MR value. If you're not getting the 50% bonus for EDP via 30 swipes/month, I don't think it's worth it. That said, it's a great card for pretty much everything if you are doing 30 swipes/month.

The long-range planning you are doing guarantees you will pass up most of the best opportunities in favor of lesser ones. With your spending, there's no reason not to open a new card as soon as you're not meeting min spend on the previous card. Then you will be earning 5-50 points per dollar on ALL spending. But learn what the best offers are for different cards, and only open them when that offer is available.

Sapphire Preferred can be downgraded to Sapphire with no fee to keep the few points you haven't transferred out and continues to give 2X on dining, and then you can open another CSP 24 months after getting the bonus on the one you currently have. Fees cost more than the second-year benefits of nearly every card unless you do heavy MS on that card.

Sorry let me rephrase: with regards to travel redemption, using the "pay with points" in UR and MR, the redemption rate is 1.25 and 1 cent per mile, respectively. Therefore, at 2x the points on dining and travel, $3800 annual spend will equal $95 in redemption. Using the same scheme, $3166 on groceries wil lget back the AF on the EP too

$3800 in travel spend on the CSP equals $95 in rewards, if you value Chase points at 1.25 cents. This breaks even, in absolute terms, compared to using no rewards card at all.

However, $3800 in travel spend on the Citi Double Cash card is $76 in rewards, with zero annual fee.

In order for the CSP to be better than just using the Double Cash (or another no-fee 2% card), you would need to spend $19,000/yr.

Similarly, the Arrival+ merely nets you an extra 0.2% over the Double Cash. You would need to put $44,500/yr on that card ($89 / 0.2%) in order to make it better than the Double Cash.

In short, your math is wrong because you are comparing using those cards against using a non-rewards card. Really, you should be comparing them against using the best no-fee card.

Just use Double Cash or another 2% no-fee card instead. Get the bonuses on other cards, and then cancel those other cards and revert to Double Cash.

So you're saying paying the AF is never worth it? I like some of the benefits that come with the card.

Getting a fee waiver for arrival + is easy and Amex gives retention offers often as well as doing a product change from CSP next year is quite possible and in this case you would hardly pay any yearly fees