Yes. I went and read the Wikipedia link referenced. I had never heard of him or his atrocities.

Maybe I will also read

I want to steer us back on topic, but I'll just say that the Liberian Civil War was full of guys like that and it was awful.

But I was just making a joke about Butt Naked not being a completely imaginary name.

Anyways, I am surprised if it would be possible to get a CC without a name/SSN match.

That's what I would have thought.. (?)
The only exception to the rule I can think of is for Super VIPs (movie stars, the president etc

They can use an alias, but the bank or airline has it internally notated who that person really is.
But then again, as proven in New York recently, even Obama's credit card gets rejected sometimes due to fraud concerns

I found another outright weird segment from Dave, that I would like clarification on

Son caught up in schemes: http://youtu.be/Hcuj1YYgxBM

Is this just another backwards thinking
Dave video, or is this of real concern (something to do with affiliate marketing) I am guessing this has something to do with a pyramid scheme. But then again, to the untrained eye Miles and points collecting and or MSing could be mistaken for some sort of scam... Analysis?

And finally a segment that actually MAKES Sense 100&
(And that's saying a lot)

Success is NOT related to education!: http://youtu.be/m38Bt8xaZFE

I'll fess up to spending more when using plastic than when spending cash. Points and miles are a brilliant marketing tool and I have found that my behavior is definitely influenced by points and miles. Part of the game is trying to control the extent to which they hold sway, extracting the greatest benefit at a reasonable cost (where cost is understood broadly to include time, energy, money).

I agree, Dave Ramsey's advice is totally solid for a significant proportion of people, as you can see when you consider what proportion of credit card users carry a balance:

http://blog.unibulmerchantservices.c...e-We-Owe-2.png

Source

While it is certainly true that a small proportion of credit card users do earn respectable amounts of discounted travel via wise use of credit, it is equally true that i) a much larger proportion of people use credit unwisely, and ii) none of us are born knowing how to use credit wisely.

More to it, though I do not advocate gambling, if I had to wager on it, I'd wager that a significant proportion (>0.5) of FT regulars find themselves further to the right-hand side of this distribution:

http://www.mybudget360.com/wp-conten...ed-states1.png

Source

In other words, in the first segment linked in the OP, Dave Ramsey said (my paraphrase) "you're not sitting here every day taking calls from people who have $48K in credit card debt." I think it should be clear from that his intended audience is probably not your average flyertalker. A favorite saying: "those who understand compound interest are destined to earn it, and those who don't, to pay it." I would guess that your average flyertalker is in the former group, whereas many of Dave Ramsey's listeners are in the latter group.

I read a book some years ago which I found thought-provoking: The Millionaire Next Door. In twenty-five words or less, the main point of the book was that what many Americans think wealthy people are like is very different from how data shows they actually are. The NYT excerpted the fairly arresting first chapter of this book here; I mention it because I believe many of the wealthy folks described by the book would give Dave Ramsey's overall worldview a hearty Amen.

Well, I'd have to check out some of the plethora of your linked resources but, I have to say, you deserve a standing ovation for how you approached the answer
again, a well deserved hat tip from me to you

It's certainly a real concern, but not so much for miles/points. The risk of miles/points is lack of discipline getting you into debt.

What he's talking about here is other stuff. There are a lot of shady investment pyramid and ponzi schemes out there... and MLM which is mostly a whitewashed version of the same. (think Amway or Ambit Energy... stay far away from these). MLM are especially attractive in a recession because you can get a "job" easily... what they don't disclose is that most people end up losing money from it.

See, this is why I like flyertalk. (Good source of honest information and analysis)
Anyway, good to know, I will make note and stay away (not that I was planning on doing this anytime soon;))

I think when topics like these come up, we have to remind ourselves, we are not the mainstream. We're a bunch of people who hang around with similar interests who likes credit cards because of points/miles/manufactured spending, etc. It's clearly not the mainstream.

FT is a fanclub of likeminded individuals who gather around as a group. It's no different from an anime convention. :D

Very true, and as such we get to find people that are actually financially savy, to bounce ideas with

I was just reading this thread since it popped up again and I saw my earlier reply to the thread. Since then I have had two credit card miles and points conversations come up just recently. A few weeks ago with one of the volleyball players while waiting at the gate for a flight, and just this past Saturday night with my girlfriend.

First off, I did fly to Seattle and Salt lake city like I said I would in my reply earlier in this thread. Flew to SLC first, then SEA. So after the first game was over I was in SLC ready to make my way to SEA and I ran into the volleyball team at the gate. My flight was right after them at the same gate. I was chatting with the coach and mentioned I only paid 12.50 or whatever for my flights, just the TSA fee. He looked a bit shocked and amazed and then said oh yeah, you are one of those miles and points people because I have mentioned it to him before. Told him this wasn't just simply flying and saving up miles, it was points from the Chase southwest signup bonus, and I got the card just for the signup bonus with this trip in mind. When I also mentioned that I found two great hotel deals in Orem and Seattle since fall travel you can still find good hotel deals, airfare not so much, which is going towards yet another free night with hotels.com I blurted out to the team sitting there that they were enabling my addiction to miles and points and travel deals.

So fast forward, the trip is over, coming home from SEA, waiting in PHX on my last flight home and the team was on the same flights as me on the return so we were all waiting at the gate waiting to board. One of the players just out of the blue, presumably remembering my earlier conversation just sat next to me at the gate and asked me how this whole points and miles thing works.

So a very attractive and fit womens college volleyball player sits next to you at the gate and asks you to explain miles and points? :D Sounds like a dream huh? :cool: So I tried to explain it in terms a non flyertalker would understand. Mentioned that credit cards are a huge benefit if you just use it like a debit card, don't spend more than you would otherwise spend and always pay the entire statement each month to avoid interest. After all if you end up paying interest, then that eliminates any rewards. I told her that I actually paid 12.50 in cash for airfare for this trip, and about 30,000 or so southwest points. All I needed to do to earn those points? This past spring I got it all just by opening a credit card. The signup bonus was spend 2k in 3 months but I explained to her that my normal monthly expenses such as groceries, cable, etc just met that so I essentially got a boat load of free points just for doing what I was going to do anyway. I also postponed some things I needed to buy so I could instead buy it during the signup bonus period. I needed a new xbox 360 since the disk tray broke, so I waited to buy it until I had the credit card just to help me with the signup bonus. I still have about 24,000 points left over in my account for another trip. I told her that the only reason I applied for the card in the first place was for the signup bonus, that I was going to cancel it next year when the annual fee was due, and the reason I wanted the signup bonus was so I could fly to see them play volleyball games against Seattle U and Utah valley university. Just told her right there I opened up a credit card just for the signup bonus, and just to use it to fly to see you guys play.

Can you guess the reaction of a college freshman who probably has many other things on her mind other than collecting miles and points? There was no reaction really. Just a few seconds of awkward silence. LOL :eek: :D so I turned to another player who was sitting by us and listening in on the conversation and straight up asked her if she thinks I am crazy for opening a credit card just for the signup bonus, and then using it to fly to two college volleyball games. She looked at me and in kinda of a roll of the eyes fashion said, "Maybe just a little." :rolleyes: I probably looked like a geek to them with the explanation. :(


Then just a few days ago I was approved for the barclay card arrival plus. After running around the apartment celebrating my girlfriend questioned it saying, "don't you have enough credit cards? can you afford it? etc" and I told her it doesn't matter how much credit you have, as long as you don't spend any more than you would otherwise. Besides, I am canceling my southwest card in a few months anyway.

However spending 3k in 3 months is more than my everyday monthly expenses. It is easily obtainable if I pay my rent with a credit card, but there is a 20 dollar fee for that so I always pay by online check. However in a couple of months I am going to book spring break travel, and that plus my regular spending, plus christmas shopping, plus my trip to Europe next month will be enough to push me over the 3k. I will then use the arrival miles to help with a trip to a soccer game this summer, and this summer I am planning on opening the capital one venture card and hit the signup bonus by booking fall travel on it.

You never want to spend just for the sake of spending to hit a signup bonus. If a signup bonus is too steep to hit by everyday regular spending, just wait until you will be in a few months period where you know you will have to spend a good amount. That way you can continue to get points for things you were going to do anyway. Also postpone larger expenses until you are in a signup bonus period if you can. Like you know you need new tires for your car, or a little this and a little that? Hold off until you open a new card so you can reach the signup bonus without spending more money than you were going to do anyway.

My girlfriend is kinda starting to sorta get it as she is warming up to opening a simple cashback card for herself to get started, but that one volleyball player I think I fried her brain. LOL :D


Although there are times when carrying a balance is perfectly fine. A few years back I had budgeted myself like usual, but I was broke as I needed both new tires and brakes for my car and went ahead and bought them, Planned on saving up for a few months to get some cushion in my checking account then suddenly unexpectedly my car started leaking oil, needed a new oil pan and pump. 900 bucks holy cow! 900 bucks I didn't have, but as luck had it I still had several months left on a 0% APR promotion on my discover card. So I carried that balance for about 4 months, but didnt pay any interest so it was same as cash.

Credit cards are the best thing ever if you know how to handle them.

The same reaction I get when I explain why I like anime, love Hatsune Miku or why I am a brony. XD

We're all nerdy and geeky in someway, embrace it! :D ^

Nice post but I think it better belongs here
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/manuf...t-other-6.html