Jan 18, 14, 11:10 pm
Last edit by: emilio911
What is it?
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)
Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.)
Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) is a "service" some merchants and ATM operators offer that will charge a cardholder in the native currency of the card rather than the local currency. A more complete definition and examples are available via this Wikipedia article on DCC. While sold as a convenience to cardholders traveling outside of their home country, it is a pure profit play by the merchants. You may end up paying a fee of up to 8% over the purchase price for accepting DCC. Always decline DCC and asked to be billed in the local currency!
Where will I see it?
You can be hit with DCC anywhere there is a difference between your debit or credit card's denominated currency and the currency of the location where you're trying to use the card. The most common example will be at a merchant overseas, but now some ATMs are offering the service too. While many US cardholders complain about getting tricked into accepting DCC overseas, some merchants in the US have started to use DCC as well.
What is the issue?
Unless you're the merchant or ATM operator, there isn't much benefit to using DCC. Some customers say they prefer knowing exactly how much they'll be charged in their home currency or may not know the exchange rate of the place where they are visiting. For example, if you are in Prague for two days and you don't know how much the Czech Koruna is worth relative to the US Dollar, you might feel more comfortable knowing that you're buying an item for $205.00 versus 4000 CZK. However, the real exchange rate as of January 18, 2014 would place 4000 CZK at $197.18. You just paid an extra $7.82 for the "convenience" of knowing how much you'd be charged!
DCC often charges about a 4% premium over the true exchange rate. The problems don't stop there since many US banks still charge a 3% foreign transaction fee (FTF) for purchases made outside of the US. Not only would you get hit with the $205.00 charge, you could also find yourself facing a total charge of $211.15 if your card has a 3% FTF.
This is a pure money grab from the merchants, and it's billed as an easy way to squeeze additional revenue out of the transaction. Numerous [1, 2] articles have talked about DCC duping many consumers. Discover even has a warning about being tricked into DCC when using a card abroad.
For example, this FlyerTalk member reported that Avis charged his Saudi credit card in Saudi riyals instead of USD for a car rental in Florida without his consent. This has also been a trend for hotels, particularly large chains as indicated here and here.
DCC is simply not worth it for the consumer. Unless you like paying a convenience fee of up to 5% of the total transaction just to know how much you will be billed, you should always decline DCC and ask to be billed in local currency when handing over your card.
Furthermore, it is in your interest to obtain a card that has a 0% FTF. FlyerTalk member kebosabi maintains a fairly comprehensive spreadsheet of EMV-enabled cards ideal for overseas travel, many of which offer a low or 0% FTF as a feature. There is also a wiki at FlyerGuide of various FTF of debit and credit cards.
What can I do to avoid DCC?
American Express currently does not support DCC on its network, so you are safe from DCC if using an American Express card. However, Visa and MasterCard card networks can support DCC, so be vigilant when purchasing abroad with a Visa or MasterCard branded card. There have been reports of being charged DCC with a Discover card in China [citation needed], but primarily the issue is happening with Visa and MasterCard cards.
Before handing your card to the merchant, always specify clearly that you want to be charged in the local currency and that you do not want DCC. For some transactions, you retain control of your card as you dip it into a chip reader and can view on a screen to select which currency you want to use for the transaction. Always select the local currencyto get the best exchange rate. Do not select the card's native currency!
Similarly, for ATM withdrawals, make sure you decline any kind of conversions. Some good examples of what to look for when using an ATM overseas are here and here. You're probably coming off of a long flight and fatigued, but educating yourself beforehand can save you from getting ripped off. The user interfaces on almost all of these ATMs are set up to encourage you to take the bait, and you have to be extremely vigilant not to fall for it.
If you are doing a PIN-based transaction, you should have the opportunity to review the total amount and denomination of the transaction before entering your PIN. If you are doing a signature transaction and the merchant has processed your transaction with DCC, cross out the amount and write "DCC refused" on the receipt. Do not sign the receipt, and demand that the merchant reverse the transaction and run it in the local currency. If no verification is required due to a small purchase amount, ask the merchant to reverse the charge and repeat the transaction using local currency. If all else fails, file a dispute with your card issuer when you return home. Even if it's immaterial, the banks will get the message like they did with EMV.
Some merchants will claim that their systems have to bill you in your native currency. This is a complete lie. But just like a mag stripe only card, this is battle where you have to be prepared. Don't settle for merchants claiming that "it has to be done this way" or "pay cash if you don't want this". Be prepared to walk away, and, if you must complete the transaction, write "DCC refused & merchant didn't give a choice" on the receipt and cross out the amount. Let the merchant know that you will be filing a dispute with your bank.
Disabling DCC
Disabling DCC on ANZ terminals in Australia
ANZ markets DCC as Customer Preferred Currency (CPC). Terminal operators can contact ANZ Merchant Services at 1800 039 025 to have this feature disabled. Currently, your Visa or MasterCard will be subjected to DCC if denominated in: CAD, CHF, DKK, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, MYR, NOK, NZD, SEK, SGD, THB, USD, or ZAR. All DCC transactions on ANZ will cause a 2.5% markup. Steps to avoid DCC:
- Insert, swipe, or tap your payment card
- Have the cashier select credit (CR)
- The terminal will display CREDIT ACCOUNT
- If applicable, enter your PIN
- The terminal will display PROCESSING \ PLEASE WAIT
- The terminal will display EXCH <exchange rate> \ <currency> <amount> \ ACCEPT RATE? \ ENTER=YES CLR=NO
- Instruct the cashier to press the yellow CLEAR (CLR) button (If entering a PIN, you can retain the terminal to perform this step yourself. If entering a signature, you can ask for the terminal to control this process, not indicating that it's a chip-and-signature card.)
- The transaction should now process without DCC
If you see a signature slip with DCC verbiage and a checkbox indicating a currency selection, kindly ask the merchant to void the transaction. If it's a PIN-based transaction, you have an additional opportunity to cancel the transaction because it will ask for your PIN a second time. For instance, if you see "EUR 17.29 KEY PIN" refuse to enter your PIN and start again.
Disabling DCC in China
There are many reports of forced DCC in China, and there is a great thread [closed to new posts] on DCC in China on the the China Destinations forum.
Disabling DCC on Bankcomm terminals in Beijing http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #19
jair101's DCC instructions of March 2011 http://www.etveg.com/misc/DCC_China.pdf
Disabling DCC in Eurozone and UK
DCC offered in tourist traps (Harrods Knightsbridge/Galleries Lafayette Montparnesse/El Cortes Ingles Grand Via Madrid)
Unlike the rest of the world, Visa Europe does not require merchants to collect a ticked box on the slip (presumably because merchants there don't keep signed slips under Chip-and-PIN)
El Cortes Ingles collects a signature electronically and the DCC selection is made on the signature pad - the choice is respected.
Harrods and GL rely on cashier input in the POS for the currency choice - the cashier may forget to ask. The POS do not offer voiding (only refunds), but since you're given a slip to sign the best thing to do is to deface it before signing and submit chargeback request to issuer bank on return home.
There may be smaller merchants who also collect DCC but I seemed to have pre-empted most of them by saying "charge Euros (Pounds) please"
In Spain all merchants by law are required to provide you with a complaint form called an hoja de reclamaciones if requested. The form has two carbon copies. The customer retains one copy as a record of the complaint. The merchant maintains another copy, and the third is sent to the local consumer protection bureau. Merchants are also required to post a sign conspicuously informing the customer of the right to complain (usually in Spanish and English). Do not accept the lie that they don't have any forms. This is illegal, and you are able to call the police if the merchant refuses to provide you with this official form. It's interesting to see merchants start to squirm when you know the rules, and most merchants will start to be accommodating after you mention it. (Please still fill out the form even if the merchant cooperates after mentioning it because these are likely the merchants who won't otherwise change their behavior.)
Disabling DCC in Hong Kong and Macau
Hong Kong and Macau can get as non-compliant as China, possibly because many acquirers have cross-border operations and know they can get away with non-compliant firmware and procedures.
In practice, if you are given a DCC slip, and the cashier has not taken a choice before giving you your copy, the slip will be processed in your home currency - be prepared to dispute.
Unable to disable Global Payments DCC in Hong Kong instance #1, instance #2
Unable to disable DBS DCC in Fortress Electronics HK
Unable to disable BoC DCC in Free Duty HK
Disabling DCC in Japan and Korea
Japan's just starting out http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/japan...ing-japan.html and http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168 but there are no reports I know of where cardholders are compelled to use DCC against their will.
Korea is also not much affected by DCC but where offered, trying to opt out is harder than Japan due to the language barrier (both verbal and written)
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=4303&p=3 #23
http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2 #11
Disabling DCC in the Maldives
Disabling DCC on Global Payment terminals in the Maldives
Disabling DCC in Thailand and Taiwan
DCC present but generally not an issue. Cashier will generate quote slip is usually generated and pass to cardholder. When cardholder refuses, a verbage-free slip denominated in THB/TWD will be produced.
Certain Taiwan hotels may take deposits in cardholder currency. But these are only pre-authorisations and can be voided in full for TWD-only final checkout payments.
Disabling DCC on Websites
Airbnb - (Since the "loophole" seem not to work anymore, please report if you chargeback the DCC.
)Hotwire - You need to select your preferred currency before making a search.
PayPal - The instructions to stop the DCC on a recurring charge are here.
I got duped by DCC already before I found this thread. Is there anything I can do?
If you've been hit with DCC and the merchant did not follow the Visa/MC rules, you should file a dispute with your card issuer. Even if the transaction is a small amount, it's worth it to dispute the charge on principle. Do not let merchants get away with this scam uncontested!
If you were not clearly given a choice of currencies and did not specifically communicate a preference to be billed in your card's native currency - if you did not accept DCC - then you have recourse when filing a dispute with your card issuer. The Visa Product and Service Rules clearly state (p 339):
- Merchants that offer DCC must be compliant with the regulations
- Inform the cardholder that DCC is optional
- Not impose any additional requirements to use local currency
- Not use any language or procedures that may cause the cardholder to choose DCC by default
- Not convert a transaction in the local currency to the card's billing currency after the transaction has completed
- Ensure that the cardholder expressly agrees to DCC
You can even use terminology from Visa Product and Service Rules when filing the dispute, giving Reason Code 76: Incorrect Currency or Transaction Code. Reason Code 76 is used when the transaction was processed with an incorrect transaction code, or an incorrect currency code, or one of the following:
- Merchant did not deposit a transaction receipt in the country where the transaction occurred
- Cardholder was not advised that Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) would occur
- Cardholder was refused the choice of paying in the merchants local currency
- Merchant processed a credit refund and did not process a reversal or adjustment within 30 calendar days for a transaction receipt processed in error
MasterCard's rules also clearly state that the POI Currency Conversion must be decided by both the merchant and customer. When filing a dispute with a MasterCard, list chargeback Reason Code 4846 from the MasterCard Chargeback Guide, which covers POI currency conversion disputes in the following circumstances:
- The cardholder states that he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction, or
- POI currency conversion took place into a currency that is not the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when the goods or services were priced in the cardholder's billing currency, or
- POI currency conversion took place when cash was disbursed in the cardholdeer's billing currency.
You do have a choice of currencies. Exercise that choice!
Do not get taken by surprise when faced with DCC, and know your options. As Visa/MC purport, you do have a choice of currencies, but you need to make that choice heard! Don't be complacent in this sneaky tactic by some merchants to pad revenues.
Before going to a different country, get educated. Understand the exchange rate relative to your native currency. Know how to recognize when the merchant is trying to force DCC on the transaction, and pull out all of the stops to make sure it doesn't happen to you.
If you have a chip-and-PIN credit card, it's easier to control the transaction to try to prevent DCC. With chip-and-signature, if you get an uncooperative merchant, deface the merchant's copy of the receipt. Write LOCAL OPTION NOT OFFERED, cross out the DCC currency amount, and sign the receipt.
This will give additional evidence when filing a dispute to get the DCC charges refunded. When filing the dispute, you can use the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator or MasterCard's Currency Conversion Tool to determine the Visa or MasterCard exchange rate on the date the transaction posted to your credit card. Compare this to the DCC value to figure out the amount by which the merchant overcharged you. Don't forget to add in any Foreign Transaction Fee if your card has one. (If it does, you should really consider finding a card for use overseas without a FTF.
)Example Images (click for a larger image)
Hotel receipts in China, the Netherlands, and Dubai respectively:
Purchase receipts in China and Korea:
Cancelled translation in Hong Kong:
Novotel in Shenzen:
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) [2014-2016]
Feb 7, 14, 9:42 am
#91
Moderator: Chase Ultimate Rewards
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SFO
Programs: MR LT Plat, IHG Plat, BW Dia, HH Au
Posts: 5,334
Please resize your images
MODERATOR NOTE:
If you post images to this thread, please resize them before you upload, to fit within the normal size of the FT posting box. If your images are more than ~800 pixels wide, they will cause scrolling headaches.
Alternately, instead of using the "image" button, use the regular "web link" button to share a LINK to the image, rather than the image itself.
Thank you.
If you post images to this thread, please resize them before you upload, to fit within the normal size of the FT posting box. If your images are more than ~800 pixels wide, they will cause scrolling headaches.
Alternately, instead of using the "image" button, use the regular "web link" button to share a LINK to the image, rather than the image itself.
Thank you.
Feb 10, 14, 1:07 am
#92
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 7_0_4 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/537.51.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.0 Mobile/11B554a Safari/9537.53)
Hi zyxlsy
No I made two spendings at the duty free floor: one usd21 one usd31
You didn't get dcced on the duty free floor cos their card machines are charging usd and you have a had card.
But u got dcced at the basement cos basement is back to normal krw. I think the choice is on the signing pad there I think, I shopped there with mastercard too (and ae and unionpay - buying three boxes of brownies one at a time http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=3939&p=6 )
Hi zyxlsy
No I made two spendings at the duty free floor: one usd21 one usd31
You didn't get dcced on the duty free floor cos their card machines are charging usd and you have a had card.
But u got dcced at the basement cos basement is back to normal krw. I think the choice is on the signing pad there I think, I shopped there with mastercard too (and ae and unionpay - buying three boxes of brownies one at a time http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=3939&p=6 )
All in all, DCC in Korea is easily avoidable. It is very credit card friendly.
MODERATOR NOTE:
If you post images to this thread, please resize them before you upload, to fit within the normal size of the FT posting box. If your images are more than ~800 pixels wide, they will cause scrolling headaches.
Alternately, instead of using the "image" button, use the regular "web link" button to share a LINK to the image, rather than the image itself.
Thank you.
If you post images to this thread, please resize them before you upload, to fit within the normal size of the FT posting box. If your images are more than ~800 pixels wide, they will cause scrolling headaches.
Alternately, instead of using the "image" button, use the regular "web link" button to share a LINK to the image, rather than the image itself.
Thank you.
Feb 10, 14, 8:36 am
#93
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cambridge, MA, US
Programs: Hyatt, Amtrak
Posts: 26
For those who use PayPal, be aware that they do DCC by default, although the setting is changeable, buried in their settings (it isn't simply in your CC's regular config). I was just reminded of it when I used PP to top-up my Italian Vodafone SIM for an upcoming trip.
Paypal seems to have just changed their interface--I had the old interface last week, but suddenly have the new one now. Not sure if everyone has it now or if it is a rolling update, but this is where the setting is buried using the "new" interface:
--Settings (near the top)
--Payment preferences (left-side menu)
--My pre approved payments ("Update" link)
--Set Available Funding Sources (link in the header part of the table)
--Finally, for each Visa/MC, there should be a link next to the CC number: Conversion Options
(Of course, AMEX doesn't have the link, but I'm not sure about Discover since I don't have one.)
I changed my settings awhile ago, so I'm not sure if they've since changed the default, but back then the default was always the "Use PayPal's conversion process…" option. The other option is "Bill me in the currency listed in the seller's invoice" with the usual warnings that you are venturing into an abyss of unknown if you use this setting.
Also--not sure, but this setting's availability may vary, depending on what country your PayPal account is under.
Paypal seems to have just changed their interface--I had the old interface last week, but suddenly have the new one now. Not sure if everyone has it now or if it is a rolling update, but this is where the setting is buried using the "new" interface:
--Settings (near the top)
--Payment preferences (left-side menu)
--My pre approved payments ("Update" link)
--Set Available Funding Sources (link in the header part of the table)
--Finally, for each Visa/MC, there should be a link next to the CC number: Conversion Options
(Of course, AMEX doesn't have the link, but I'm not sure about Discover since I don't have one.)
I changed my settings awhile ago, so I'm not sure if they've since changed the default, but back then the default was always the "Use PayPal's conversion process…" option. The other option is "Bill me in the currency listed in the seller's invoice" with the usual warnings that you are venturing into an abyss of unknown if you use this setting.
Also--not sure, but this setting's availability may vary, depending on what country your PayPal account is under.
Last edited by blue2000; Feb 10, 14 at 8:45 am
Feb 10, 14, 9:35 am
#94
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 40,695
PayPal's own fees are so extortionate that DCC almost pales by comparison. I'm not surprised that they're trying to double up though; that's PayPay style.
Feb 10, 14, 1:06 pm
#95
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cambridge, MA, US
Programs: Hyatt, Amtrak
Posts: 26
The annoying thing is that I can never quite get this transaction to go how I want with a CC. I explicitly choose to use my CC each time I top-up, and the transaction goes through without incident, at least superficially. However, when I go back to the PP transaction details, I always see that it comes out of my linked checking account, and the conversion rate is always exactly 2.5% more than the daily $/€ rate (which matches PP's 2.5% conversion fee). I'm not sure if the CC is failing silently and PP is dropping back to my checking account, or if PP is not even trying my CC at all. If the CC was rejected, it would be nice if they told you, but they don't seem to show that in the results. In any case, you can't seem to "turn-off" your linked checking account, so the only way to test is to delete it altogether, have a $0 PP balance, test a transaction, and then setup everything again afterwards. I'd like to see what the same transaction would look like using my Visa with 0% FTF and with PP's DCC setting off.
This is what the PP site says regarding anything involving currency conversion:
We receive a wholesale rate quote from our bank twice a day and add 2.5% to determine the retail foreign exchange rate to apply to transactions that involve a currency conversion.
I don't actually have an issue with charging 2.5% when they are providing a service like conversion while I (knowingly) use my checking account--after all, they are a business providing a service, and 2.5% is technically better than the 3.0% or 2.7% that some CC companies charge, and with a checking account as source, it isn't double-dipping like with a CC w/FTFs as source. But I do have an issue when they are doing it when I explicitly select my 0% FTF Visa with DCC turned off as the payment method, and then they revert to my checking account with an automatic 2.5% fee without any confirmation from me first.
Last edited by blue2000; Feb 10, 14 at 1:50 pm Reason: Adding last paragraph
Feb 10, 14, 1:48 pm
#96
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: FQTR CX FTQS JL FQTV TBD
Posts: 19,225
The annoying thing is that I can never quite get this transaction to go how I want with a CC. I explicitly choose to use my CC each time I top-up, and the transaction goes through without incident, at least superficially. However, when I go back to the PP transaction details, I always see that it comes out of my linked checking account, and the conversion rate is always exactly 2.5% more than the daily $/€ rate (which matches PP's 2.5% conversion fee). I'm not sure if the CC is failing silently and PP is dropping back to my checking account, or if PP is not even trying my CC at all. If the CC was rejected, it would be nice if they told you, but they don't seem to show that in the results. In any case, you can't seem to "turn-off" your linked checking account, so the only way to test is to delete it altogether, have a $0 PP balance, test a transaction, and then setup everything again afterwards. I'd like to see what the same transaction would look like using my Visa with 0% FTF and with PP's DCC setting off.
I don't actually have an issue with charging 2.5% when they are providing a service like conversion while I (knowingly) use my checking account--after all, they are a business, and 2.5% is technically better than the 3.0% or 2.7% that some CC companies charge, and with the checking account as source, it isn't double-dipping like with a CC w/FTFs. But I do have an issue when they are doing it when I explicitly select my 0% FTF Visa with DCC turned off as the payment method, and then they revert to my checking account with an automatic 2.5% fee without any confirmation from me first.
Feb 16, 14, 5:29 pm
#97
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 5,822
Fellow FlyerTalker member klashn and I have been in Barcelona taking advantage of the Widere mistake fare over Presidents' Day weekend. We were in a souvenir shop near Parc Gell and klashn used his Capital One without a second glance from the merchant at doing a swipe and sign transaction on a mag stripe only card.
The price was 10 , and we clearly saw this on the screen. However, he didn't watch the merchant carefully, and DCC was applied with him being charged in USD. The exchange rate made it such that the DCC was about a 6% markup over the real exchange rate. We went to another store off of La Rambla and carefully specified wanting to pay in euros. We saw that after the card has been swiped the machine will say 1 for USD (DCC) and 2 for EUR (no DCC). I think the default option is DCC, but I'm not sure. We checked carefully and got a DCC-free transaction, but it shows that one needs to be vigilant.
I only used my credit card twice while here, once for tickets at La Pedrera and once at a TMB kiosk to purchase the 10 trip metro tickets. Neither transaction had DCC. The hotel will be the final charge with the potential for DCC, but we'll find that out tomorrow and I'll report back. Also, if klashn sends me the redacted receipts, I can add them to this post.
The price was 10 , and we clearly saw this on the screen. However, he didn't watch the merchant carefully, and DCC was applied with him being charged in USD. The exchange rate made it such that the DCC was about a 6% markup over the real exchange rate. We went to another store off of La Rambla and carefully specified wanting to pay in euros. We saw that after the card has been swiped the machine will say 1 for USD (DCC) and 2 for EUR (no DCC). I think the default option is DCC, but I'm not sure. We checked carefully and got a DCC-free transaction, but it shows that one needs to be vigilant.
I only used my credit card twice while here, once for tickets at La Pedrera and once at a TMB kiosk to purchase the 10 trip metro tickets. Neither transaction had DCC. The hotel will be the final charge with the potential for DCC, but we'll find that out tomorrow and I'll report back. Also, if klashn sends me the redacted receipts, I can add them to this post.
Feb 17, 14, 4:23 am
#98
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: KWI
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 806
Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) - Master Thread
My experience in Poland and Germany is a bit more shady with the defaults. It asks "Approve transaction? Green for USD, Red for (local currency)". Since cashiers don't always read the best English, they just hit green for approve. This has happened to me despite requesting payment in local currency.
Feb 17, 14, 4:41 am
#99
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: FQTR CX FTQS JL FQTV TBD
Posts: 19,225
My experience in Poland and Germany is a bit more shady with the defaults. It asks "Approve transaction? Green for USD, Red for (local currency)". Since cashiers don't always read the best English, they just hit green for approve. This has happened to me despite requesting payment in local currency.
I wish I can do the tongue rolling Jim Hacker does.
We haven't made it to Poland yet.
Feb 17, 14, 6:24 am
#100
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
My experience in Poland and Germany is a bit more shady with the defaults. It asks "Approve transaction? Green for USD, Red for (local currency)". Since cashiers don't always read the best English, they just hit green for approve. This has happened to me despite requesting payment in local currency.
Feb 17, 14, 6:30 am
#101
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: KWI
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 806
My experience in Poland and Germany is a bit more shady with the defaults. It asks "Approve transaction? Green for USD, Red for (local currency)". Since cashiers don't always read the best English, they just hit green for approve. This has happened to me despite requesting payment in local currency.
I've disputed every Chase DCC transaction successfully. Barclay requires a phone or written dispute so I haven't had a chance to file those ones yet.
Feb 17, 14, 10:55 pm
#102
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
I've taken the cases to Chase and be successful in the past.
Although I've never been to Western Europe, my experience in Northern Europe is quite good. I remember being shown the selections and I was able to make a choice.
The experience is the best in Hong Kong, Japan and Korea. You are clearly given the choices, and everybody knows this deal.
What you guys say about DCC in Western Europe just makes my image of that crime ridden place worse. I can vividly picture a Italian or French merchant con you with "Let's see"+"hitting USD"... ON PURPOSE!!!
Although I've never been to Western Europe, my experience in Northern Europe is quite good. I remember being shown the selections and I was able to make a choice.
The experience is the best in Hong Kong, Japan and Korea. You are clearly given the choices, and everybody knows this deal.
What you guys say about DCC in Western Europe just makes my image of that crime ridden place worse. I can vividly picture a Italian or French merchant con you with "Let's see"+"hitting USD"... ON PURPOSE!!!
Feb 18, 14, 12:47 am
#103
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,762
It's hard to generalize this and indeed some of it in a way is cultural. For example, maybe I'm an exception, but I have rarely encountered this scam in France. Perhaps it dates back to the time the French really wanted everybody to accept their culture and part of it was you paid in (French) francs. (Of course it's the euro now). The home and birthplace of this scam was Ireland (the Republic of). For years, they never asked and if you complained after the fqact, they had some lies ready for you. ("It's a good rate set by the Bank of Ireland. Besides you may not know your bank charges a fee for currency conversion." (Mine doesn't and of course it's a foreign transaction fee anyway). "The amount in your currency is just shown as an approximation' the transaction is being done in punts (the pre euro currency)." Or, "we have no control over it. The terminal does it automatically." Heard all of them in my arguments with merchants which was always followed by from me, "Please bring the manager." Of course, in Ireland I never heard, "No comprende Ingles" or something to that effect. Today, and I've seen this in operation say at Blarney Castle mall they do ask but they urge you the better choice is your currency. ("you lock in the rate." Like the rate ever changes in a single day by 5% but to be fair, when you say euro, that's the end of the story. They run the transaction properly.
It's a growing problem in London. Many of the rip off theatre agencies which pretend to be the official half price theatre agency on the walk from the underground station on Charing Cross Road to Leicester Square pull this automatically and claim its part of the deal to get the 1/2 (which is more than the official Leicester Square TKTS booth charges). Spain is getting bad (elcortes ingles a prime example). Italy is getting bad (but never been pulled on my at an Autogrill). Holland and Germany loathe credit cards as it is. For years, of course, in the so called Eastern bloc before 1989, transactions were often required by law to be done in wetern currency (the way these cash starved countries loaded up on convertible currency and it was legally required).
So as I said, it's hard to generalize. And let's not forget the many unscrupulous merchants in the USA who pull this sruff on foreign visitors to the USA!
It's a growing problem in London. Many of the rip off theatre agencies which pretend to be the official half price theatre agency on the walk from the underground station on Charing Cross Road to Leicester Square pull this automatically and claim its part of the deal to get the 1/2 (which is more than the official Leicester Square TKTS booth charges). Spain is getting bad (elcortes ingles a prime example). Italy is getting bad (but never been pulled on my at an Autogrill). Holland and Germany loathe credit cards as it is. For years, of course, in the so called Eastern bloc before 1989, transactions were often required by law to be done in wetern currency (the way these cash starved countries loaded up on convertible currency and it was legally required).
So as I said, it's hard to generalize. And let's not forget the many unscrupulous merchants in the USA who pull this sruff on foreign visitors to the USA!
Feb 18, 14, 12:52 am
#104
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: FQTR CX FTQS JL FQTV TBD
Posts: 19,225
Hong Kong - I don't think so
DCCing a FT Ambassador
Korea - DCC rollout is fairly limited.
Japan's just started http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=3939&p=17 #168
Feb 18, 14, 1:06 am
#105
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: FQTR CX FTQS JL FQTV TBD
Posts: 19,225
Not at the Gourmet Experience at El Cortes Ingles Gran Via Madrid
