I know I've purchased at Woolworths without DCC in Sydney. I can't remember if I went there last time (March 2013). If not, I certainly did on my previous trip in August 2012. August 2012 was back before I got any mag stripe cards, and I didn't have any issues with a swipe-and-sign transaction, as I believe you call it. My wife and I visited a number of places in Sydney and Melbourne during our March 2013 trip and did not see any signs of DCC. Unfortunately, once DCC rears its ugly head it tends to spread like wildfire.

Second day in Singapore. Tens of transactions without incurring DCC.

There are places like DFS where your can choose the currency you want. Other places simply use S$ by default.

My understanding is that if the slip shows exchange rate, DCC has happened already, regardless of the country. The slips I've been getting in Singapore don't have rates and things, but only have S$ marks.

That's true in Mainland China. From what I've read from our resident experts here is that it's a function of the payment terminals not allowing a selection after the quote slip has appeared. However, Taiwan will honor the currency selection on the quote slip. I've heard merchants in Thailand will too, but I haven't been to Thailand to test this out personally. I don't know about Singapore, but I'd assume they'd honor the selection on the quote slip too. If not, maybe imposing DCC against a customer's will should be punishable by caning. :D

In Taiwan the merchants where I've seen DCC have primarily been department stores, and they've always given me the final charge slip showing TWD. I have my wife explain to them upfront that I want to be charged in TWD, not USD, and they've always been able to accommodate. The only other place I've seen DCC has been at the airport Novotel. They force the room authorization hold to be DCC, but since this charge falls off I don't complain too much. I use AmEx at the Taipei Sheraton, and we book through a local travel portal, which doesn't use DCC since it's all Taiwanese using it, for all other hotels.

I just don't see a lot of DCC in Singapore. Not like Hong Kong, where DCC is prevalent but almost 100% defeat-able. In Singapore I've only seen it at DFS.

You use your AMEX SPG card in Taiwan???

I don't have the SPG card. I used my Platinum. At the time my Chase Marriott card was my primary, but I always considered it bad form to use at another hotel chain. :D

My experience:

Thailand (last April): seperate slip offered first, haven't experienced any problems turning down DCC. A THB-only slip then comes out.

Taiwan (last December): similar to Thailand. Also had the hold in HKD, but reversed and finalised in TWD on checkout.

Singapore (also last June): not much DCC noted. Then again Singapore is this super compliant place - perhaps Global Payments executives and their ilk don't look forward to getting spanked for fxcked firmware.

About Singapore, maybe what I said in jest about caning is actually true. :eek: You're right though. Singapore is all about compliance and following the rules.

Which property did you have this happen in Taiwan? Was it also the Novotel?

Wirelessly posted (beckoa's BB: Mozilla/5.0 (BlackBerry; U; BlackBerry 9810; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.11+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/7.1.0.694 Mobile Safari/534.11+)

Had this happen and chose HKD in HKG- was I ok in HKG?

The timing of your post is uncanny because yesterday I had a dcc run in with the exact same manager at coyote that got me rowled up last year and was planning sending Percy smith relevant documents for posting here. The short of it is my colleague who picked up the tab was absolutely billed in USD and proved this to the manager who was insistent that we were mistaken.

Just got my AMEX Platinum as well. Tried it in Singapore, where AMEX is quite preferred, even more preferred than Visa just by the looks.

Exactly!

In Hong Kong, my experience is that if you have a slip for currency selection, especially at a luxury store, you will tick the currency and the merchant will input that on the terminal. You get a final slip in the currency chosen.

Other places in Hong Kong, you choose the currency on the keypad when your card is swiped. You get the slip after choosing the currency.

But as Moondog mentioned, some crooks in HK WILL DCC you before you tick your choice on the slip. So when in a bar or something, look out. Regular restaurants, stores, and other places are fine from my own experience.

Did a comparison in Singapore. The rates with MC is about 0.15% better than Visa, and Visa is slightly slightly better than AMEX.

What confuses me is that Chase Sapphire Preferred has a slightly better rate than United Club card. They both are from Chase, and they both are Visa. But on different days, I always get better rates on CSP (like 1.2526 vs 1.2524).

Aren't they supposed to use the same rate, published only by Visa?

Yes, the rate should be identical. Also Visa vs Mastercard will be slightly different, and Amex will be quite different but it won't always work out in the favour of any particular network. They determine their rates a bit differently.

Just to update, since I had 2 separate stays here, on my 2nd stay I used a different credit card (ANZ Travel Visa Signature) cause I somehow lost my first one (got a replacement when I came home), and no DCC. I guess their machine was DCC compliant, just a matter of whether the staff knows how to use it.

"Knows how to use it" can be taken two ways though. Is always DCCing you NOT knowing how to use it, or is that "knowing how to use it" per directions from management...

My wife and I might head to Xiamen in September, but we'd likely stay at a Starwood property meaning that I'd use my AmEx. It's good to know that DCC can be disabled at these hotels.

Cool, you can read my reviews on TA. The Westin review is up, will write up Sheraton soon.

You can flip through my Flickr album at the bottom signature, all the pictures are there. ^

Thanks for the references. We'd be looking to take a ferry from Kinmen, but we'd have to get our paperwork in order. My wife needs to get a Táibāo, and I need to get a Chinese visa. However, after looking at the air pollution outside, I wonder if visiting would be hazardous to my health. :D

well, air pollution wouldn't be as bad as Beijing or other cities hehe..

Anyways, let's go back to talking about DCC. :D

We have a double case of Bankcomm Beijing DCC over at hongkongcard.com - one that cannot be avoided (Dadong), and one that can (RC, looks like dining) http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...p?id=12272&p=2

I just checked in to the Sydney Marriott at Circular Quay, and while I am doing this stay on points I was hypervigilant (or as much as I could be after 24 hours of travel from Philadelphia :D) and it seems like there is no DCC and the rate code was AUD. The authorization form made no mention of DCC, and the only thing was the disclosed credit card surcharge.

There isn't that much jetlag to Australia IME (GMT-8 to +11 is 19 hours difference which is only net 5 hours on a typical LAXSYD flight.)

No, there really isn't. I was just trying to make a joke. Coming from the east coast in the US I just stay up as late as possible and fall asleep a few hours into the flight. If I can stay asleep for 9-10 hours of the flight due to fatigue, I'm usually good when I wake up. QF 12 always lands around 6 am and is one of the first flights to land in the morning.

BankComm machines can "ALL" be turned off for DCC, IMO. You need to hit the red CANCEL button right after entering ENTER, when it shows CHECKING FX RATE. This is the way BankComm complies with Visa rules. I doubt there would be two firmwares for BankComm machines.

It depends whether the merchant would allow this CANCEL HITTING. It could be fear of unexpected fees, or having already the plan of outright ripping off customers with DCC. DCC fees are less than non-DCC fees for merchants.

So, ask carefully before choosing your card on these machines.

If you use AmEx, there is no DCC at all. I just tried my Platinum at a BankComm machine, notorious for DCC.

Bang! No DCC at all. The cashier was shocked... That person was shocked last time by my Discover Card, Hahaha~

I am gonna do a comparison, I will use my CSP, Chase United Club, IHG MC, AMEX Plat, and Discover It, to each purchase one item at a Starbucks, which doesn't have DCC for all cards. Then let's see which card has the lowest rate.

I understand they use different rates. But I am curious to know whether it's possible that, at one time, say, Visa rate is better than MC rate, and several days later, Visa rate fluctuates to a position worse than MC rate?

This is very much possible. I find my forex free MC and Amex compete against each other for the best rate when I use my GBP cards in the US. Amex use the rate of the transaction time though I think, whereas MasterCard and Visa use the settlement date.

I did that already - bought a box of brownies one box at a time from the same cashier in Seoul:


http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=3939&p=7 #59

I bought three boxes of brownies with three cards.

Transaction date: 28 Oct
Merchant: Lotte Supermarket, Seoul
Amount: KRW2,500

Bankcomm Diamond Unionpay
Post date: 29 Oct
HKAB rate: 0.007330
Bankcomm rate: 0.007128
Discount: 2.76%

SCB AE
Post date: 30 Oct
SCB rate: 0.007208
HKAB rate: 0.007320
Discount: 1.53%

Shacom PLK MC
Post date: 30 Oct
HKAB rate: 0.007320
Shacom rate: 0.007192
Discount: 1.75%


I was criticized for not including Visa. So, next trip, one weekend in Bangkok (not same cashier tho):

http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=3939&p=7 #61

Amex Gold Charge
Post date: 19 Nov
HKAB sell rate: 0.2556
Amex rate: 0.2579
Premium: 0.90%

Shacom PLK MC
Post date: 19 Nov
HKAB sell rate: 0.2556
Shacom rate: 0.2591
Premium: 1.36%

Bankcomm Plat Visa
Post date: 19 Nov
HKAB sell rate: 0.2556
Bankcomm rate: 0.2575
Premium: 0.74%

Bankcomm Diamond Unionpay
Post date: 19 Nov
HKAB sell rate: 0.2556
Bankcomm rate: 0.2542
Discount: 0.55%

I used to use Amex a lot due to earning rates for miles. In my experience:

- if the transaction is dirty float or exchange rate-controlled, Amex does better. Examples: RMB, TWD, KRW and THB

- if the transaction currency is generally free float Amex does badly. Examples: AUD, GBP and EUR

One time I saw a GBP/HKD exchange rate complaint on a AE network card being posted on hongkongcard.com. I found Amex had actually used a intra-day peak rate from four days before the posting date for converting the transaction http://www.hongkongcard.com/forum/fo...hp?id=3939&p=3 #27. So I figured Amex makes a killing when the currency is highly fluctuating and not so much when the currency is flat.

I'll have to try this when I'm in Taiwan in September to see the differences in exchange rates (plus provide some DCC examples too). I primarily use Chase Visa products, but you're saying generally speaking AmEx will have a more favorable exchange rate. And I imagine it doesn't matter for my USD denominated cards for places like HK where the exchange rate is pegged to USD?

You are saying UnionPay are even better than Visa/MC/AMEX rates??? The rates provided by 95516 (for USD to CNY) is always worse than USD to CNY rates from Visa/MC... Usually around 0.2% to 0.35% worse.

This is shown with using Discover on UnionPay network in China. Since the conversion is done by UnionPay when the CNY transaction is posted to 银联国际业务平台 in USD using UnionPay rate, the rate is usually 0.2% to 0.35% worse than Visa/MC/AMEX.

BTW, just did some purchases today using both Visa and AMEX Plat, got almost identical rates.

I have the same feeling too~

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Zyxlsy: that's be cause unionpay issuers in HK forgo foreign currency translation fee (it's 1.95% for v/MC and 2% for ae). Add them back and you'll see unionpay wholesale rate is worse off

OK, now I understand~

That's why my CSP does a much better job because the fee is 0%.

Do HK banks issue real "no FTF" cards?

First time encountering DCC in Australia. My wife and I sat down at Coffee and Chocolate at a Queens Plaza in Brisbane. The DVD almost happened too quickly for me to react. Now, the fact I was using my US chip-and-signature card helped somewhat because the cashier immediately handed me the terminal to enter a PIN. The cashier looked confused and I saw USD 23.7x. (I forget the exact amount as I was in shock of it happening.) I felt like in the movies where the character realized he had just stepped on a landmine. The cashier said, "Oh. You can press OK." In order to decline DCC I actually had to press the yellow CLR button. Pressing the green OK/ENTER would have resulted in DCC being accepted. The original amount in AUD was $24.15. With the pending charge on Chase's website being $22.67, the markup would be around 4.5%. This was an ANZ terminal. Nice try, ANZ, but I refuse to fall victim to DCC.

I have the customer copy of the receipt which shows AUD abd is free of DCC verbiage. Combined with the pending charge and comparing to Visa's current exchange rate, I think I have safely avoided DCC. After comparing my receipts here is the breakdown of the 12 purchases I've made (all with a Chase Visa) in Australia:

Commonwealth Bank: 3
Westpac: 3
ANZ: 2 (1 tried DCC)
Nab: 1
Suncorp: 1
Unknown: 2 (CityRail and Coles)

I just got all the results back from four purchases using different networks in a Starbucks.

AMEX Plat: (6/12 13:17 pm China Standard Time, posted 6/13 (EST?))
CNY amount 27; USD amount 4.35; Rate = 6.20689655172

Chase Sapphire Preferred Visa: (6/12 12:01 pm China Standard Time, posted 6/13 (EST?))
CNY amount 18; USD amount 2.89 (2.89 authorized); Rate = 6.22837370242

United Club Card Visa: (6/12 13:28 pm China Standard Time, posted 6/13 (EST?))
CNY amount 26; USD amount 4.18 (4.17 authorized); Rate = 6.22009569378

IHG MC: (6/12 12:12 pm China Standard Time, posted 6/13 (EST?))
CNY amount 18; USD amount 2.90 (2.89 authorized); Rate = 6.20689655172

From Visa Europe:

Visa 6/12 6.228007
Visa 6/13 6.225177
Visa 6/14 6.206708

From MasterCard:

MC 6/12 6.217500
MC 6/13 6.209000
MC 6/14 N/A (I guess this website is for MC US)

I am still confused about how Chase presents the dates. The dates on its website are EST or PST or something?

The problem I see with this experiment is that the amounts are too small to see the difference. But the rates tend to be close.

My wires to Chase, Citi, and JP Morgan (all NY banks) reliably post at 9a EDT/EST, if that's any indication for you (I think I posted about this up thread a few months ago).

Off topic, I haven't checked the USD/CNY fx rates in about a month, and I had no idea that the USD was still so strong.

Yes, I think Chase uses ET. When I was charging in Australia last week the transactions were mostly showing up as pending based on the the time and date back home. For the Visa exchange rate, Chase uses the exchange rate on the date the transaction posts to your account. The pending charge reflects the exchange rate at the time of purchase, but will not necessarily be the amount that posts to your account (unless of course you got hit with DCC).

I saw my second instance of DCC at F1RST Tax & Duty Free at Brisbane Airport. I guess that's to be expected. I threw a bit of a curveball at the system by splitting tender between cash - I wanted to use the rest of my AUD - charging the rest. In fairness to their system, they had a big LCD panel with the currencies and flags. Since I said, "Australian dollars, please!" almost instinctively, I didn't have time to snap a photo or look at what the markup was. This would have been hefty though because they charged a 1.5% credit card surcharge plus whatever the DCC rate would have been. Overall though I am happy to report that DCC was rare from my experience. Only 2 out of 20 purchases had DCC, one was the cafe in Brisbane I mentioned previously - I was surprised with this one - and the other was the duty free store at the airport, which was unsurprising. My purchases spanned hotels, restaurants, cafes, fast food, supermarkets, etc.

One thing that helps matters is that Australia is transitioning to chip-and-PIN in about a month, so all of the cashiers instinctively handed me the credit card terminal. I'm convinced this got me out of the DCC charge at the coffee shop as most cashiers just repeatedly and rapidly press enter until the transaction completes. I was able to stare at the terminal for a good 5 seconds to figure out what to do. The next trip overseas is to Taiwan/HK/Macau/possibly Mainland China, so this was the warm-up. :D

The other wrinkle was that it was a Chase-issued card run on a Chase Paymentech terminal, because this happened more than once on those terminals for me.

majuki: glad Australians implemented DCC this way. In Uk (another chip and pin jurisdiction), the DCC selection is controlled by the cashier, not by the cardholder using pin pad.

But isn't there a way to see the transaction amount either on the cash register's screen or on the PIN pad. If I noticed them trying to pull DCC, I would refuse to enter my PIN. Of course, this only works if cardholder verification is required. We've read the reports of it happening at Burger King in Ireland and the cashiers being "powerless" to stop it.

I think Burger King in Ireland is infamous as the worst forced DCC offender in the world. It's certainly the only place I've ever been force DCC'd