I haven't found FIA to be that painful. Yes their IT is a decade old, but at the end of the day the job gets done and i interact with them very little. Your case may be different. No experience with Barclays. Personally, if i were in the CB camp, i would take the cash over a 0.2% deferred rebate on certain category redemption. Since i would prefer to put travel spend on the CSP for at least 2% CB with the potential for more (and a fairly equivalent AF)

I have been making the opposite switch. After spending most of the 12-18 months on cash back, I am moving more toward points. I ended up moving all the CB rewards (except for things like TYP) into an account to "see" the accumulation. Even with the devaluations in my two main air programs (UA and DL) I currently feel i get a better return on the points side as they serve as a top-up to points i am earning on actual travel. I dont do a lot of AOR and no MS. If i were traveling less or spending less on my travel I might change my tune again.

CB vs. points is one of the decisions I have the most internal debates on.

Yeah, this debate is something that I'm wasting far too much of my time on....

For me it's currently points for every day, and cash back for big purchases or when I can double dip (Discover it 5% plus Shop Discover 5%). I just wish Chase had more transfer partners.

I guess the other part of my question is at what point does the flexibility of cash outweigh the extra value of points in a program?

If I value a Hyatt point at 2cpp, it's hard to then cash that same point in for 1cpp if I switch to cash back and move away from Chase.

I like having points because I'm forced to watch it grow, and not use it for other things that I might not if I could use the same points for them.

My flights don't earn me miles, so that's part of my struggle. I fly quite a bit, but don't build up mileage like everyone else, so this is the only way I build up miles and points.

I will basically do this with the BCP. I can pick up a $500 Visa/MC from the grocery store and get $30 cash back but pay a $6 load fee - in effect it becomes a 4.8% card. It used to be even better at Kroger, but they stopped giving gas points on variable loads. The $100 cards still give points and can be worth 7% (or 14% during 4X) in gas with the BCP cash being a wash with the load fee, but they are a pain to liquidate. I'll pick up a couple during a 4X if I don't want to bank some retail cards.

Problem with the prepaids is that they are also a pain with recurring bills which for me are gas, electric and cable - $250-$300 a month. Those all make me register a card number, so I have to go in and change it every month or two as one card gets used up. Not worth the hassle to constantly manage them (and risk forgetting and paying a late fee) to get an extra $10/month in rewards.

I was going to get the Barclay Arrival for 2%, but they have blacklisted me for AOR games back in 2008.

My SO says the exact same thing.


It is a good question. In my mind, cash is king and very flexable but makes my desires harder to reach. With cash i can do what i want (TYP and arrival points are not cash in my mind), but a ~3% CB rate (blended across all spend) is not that meaningful of a number based on my spending. It is not going to put a large enough dent in a major vacation to offset the potential that points provide. It just doesnt get me excited about my spending, OTOH maybe that would be a good thing.

As you mentioned you don't earn many points from travel so you are left with just CC spend. I think that makes it harder to justify points, unless your spend is very high.

Over the last few years i have built a pretty extensive model based on my spending detail from mint.com which break everything out into most all the CC bonus spend categories possible and then applies the various reward programs (cash / points / mix & match) out there i may want to use. After numerous scenarios, virtually all of them come in at a max around 3.8-4.6% (reward malls are excluded) on a gross basis (before AF) and lower once all the AF's are considered. Now where this becomes very subjective is on the value of a point (I generally assume ~1.8c/pt for air).

The logic tells me, for my situation, cash would generally be the best unless i really valued an airmile (UR / MR / UA / DL) north of 2 cents, and i only needed one long-haul premium ticket a year (in reality i need 2), but b/c i earn a lot through traveling and place a high value on points (which may not be realistic), points provide the most optionality and best yield.



I look at it in the opposite way, and is one reason i struggle with MR / SPG / proprietary program. I like knowing that in the worst case, my chase points are cash at 1ct/pt. it gives me a decent floor where i would be less upset if that were to occur.

Without breaking a sweat I can do $48k a year in MS alone, not a lot, but not a little, either. I'm currently sitting on ~206k DL miles, ~150k AA miles, 100k HH, and 130k Hyatt, 53k VX, and DL climbs by about 5-6k a month.

The problem with Mint, is I have to keep track of what posts as what. Some of the places I go a lot post as grocery with Amex, Gas with Visa and Misc retail with MC. Makes it really hard to figure that one out fully. I'll set it up and see how it ends up, is the rewards feature a new tool in Mint?

Yeah, I think if I could average 3.5c/$ cash back I would be ok with that. Most of my spend going forward will be on hotels, and the rest on very cheap flights, which I have to pay cash, so points don't come into play for the flights.

That is a lot of MS, given your situation cash very well may be the best. Mint doesnt have a reward tracking tool, I am just a little OCD about categorizing everything and then dump it int excel to run my rewards model.

Well since it's primarily non-bonus spend as MS it would only result in ~$960 in cash back if done at 2%, vs ~52,800 UR points, which to me, are worth a bit more.

I don't think I'm ever going to be able to make a decision. I just keep coming back to 1cpp is such a waste of an UR point.