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-   -   USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature) [2012-2015] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credit-card-programs/1304271-usa-emv-cards-availability-q-chip-pin-chip-signature-2012-2015-a.html)

bluto Jan 18, 12 11:29 am

USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature) [2012-2015]
 
May I suggest that we create a sticky in the 1st post with a running list of cards where users may request a chip and pin card? I have been skimming this thread and see the two cards noted above and also the Chase BA card. The sticky on the best credit card offers over in MilesBuzz has been extremely useful to FTers, and I can see a running list of chip/pin-capable cards becoming a handy reference, too.

Moderator edit: kebosabi has responded to this suggestion by creating an editable Google worksheet which summarizes the EMV cards available from USA-issuers today:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...k01SHZvTUMxdUE

mia Jan 18, 12 11:46 am

Please reply to this thread ONLY if you have updated the Google Docs worksheet which lists the cards available today:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...k01SHZvTUMxdUE

Discussion of these cards is hosted in this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...signature.html

Discussion of the merits of EMV versus swipe and other verification methods is hosted in this thread:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...iscussion.html

kebosabi Jan 18, 12 12:02 pm

Collective report of Chip & Signature usage abroad (as of 2012/8/22)
 
From the collective reports so far, we have begun seeing a better picture how US issued EMV Chip-and-Signature cards work outside the US:

Live merchants
Tester(s): kebosabi report, Aaron01 report

Pro: No more hassle about wasting 5-10 minutes of your life trying to convey the "you have to take it" "but it's store policy" charade with a cashier who may or may not understand English with a backlog of irritated customers behind you. The less stress, the better.

Con(?): Some are surprised it prints out a receipt to sign because they're not used to seeing machines spitting out a receipt to sign. Usually not a problem though.


Automated kiosks - no authorization under X amount
Tester(s): geohiller report, dyung report
  1. You selected an amount that's within X amount where transactions don't need verification
  2. The kiosk will read the EMV chip
  3. Transaction goes through
  4. No more need of trodding in shame to search of a live human to help you


Automated kiosks - online authorization (using cash advance PIN and going through as purchase)
Tester(s): islandguy84 report, cvarming report, Majuki report, joshwex90 report
  1. The kiosk will read the EMV chip and will ask you for your PIN
  2. You enter your PIN normally used for cash advances at the ATM
  3. The machine will connect with the server and verify that the PIN is correct
  4. Transaction goes through and is posted as a purchase instead of a cash advance.
  5. No more need of trodding in shame to search of a live human to help you


Automated kiosks - offline authorization
Tester(s): inferno10 report, dasubergeek report
  1. The kiosk will read the EMV chip and will ask you for your PIN
  2. You enter your PIN normally used for cash advances at the ATM
  3. The machine will check the chip if the PIN is correct
  4. Since there is no PIN encoded to the chip, the transaction fails
  5. However, there are also instances where four zeroes might work in some places
  6. If that also fails, trod over in shame and look for a live attendant (if there is one) to help you process it manually

Automated kiosks - offline authorization confirmed working with Andrews FCU (Chip-and-PIN) cards
Tester(s): BeeNYC report, RRossi report
  1. The kiosk will read the EMV chip and will ask you for your PIN
  2. You enter your PIN normally used for cash advances at the ATM
  3. The machine will check the chip if the PIN is correct
  4. Since the PIN is hard encoded to the chip, the transaction goes through and is posted as purchase instead of cash advance
  5. No more need of trodding in shame to search of a live human to help you



Country-locked cards
Tester(s): unavaca and cvarming report posts #206-210
Nothing you can do about this unless you have a card issued specifically for use in that country.
Seems to be the case in Denmark.


Consumer Verdict
Having an EMV Chip & Signature card is way better than just having a mag-stripe only card and is worth getting one.

However, Chip & Signature can still fail in offline verification kiosks which is somewhat prevalent in kiosks that aren't hooked up to the acquirer. If you would like to prepare yourself in instances like this, it may also be worth looking into getting a Chip & PIN card via a credit union until the big banks start implementing those as well.

bluto Jan 18, 12 3:59 pm


Originally Posted by kebosabi (Post 17837726)
Considering that the list would continue to grow over time and many cards (i.e. Citi) are still on a per-request basis, may I suggest a wiki-type page that anyone can update? :confused:

AFAIK here are the options available today (may have missed some) on Google Docs:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...k01SHZvTUMxdUE

^ This is a great start to the list.

mia Jan 18, 12 4:54 pm


Originally Posted by kebosabi (Post 17837726)
...options available today...

Very good, and thank you. Suggestions:

Column B will eventually need to accommodate a third Type; Charge. I would call the Travelex card "Prepaid debit"

Column F could be headed "Forex fee" and instead of listing Yes/No the sheet could show 0% 1% 3% etc.

Column G could show the name of the rewards program, such as "Ultimate Rewards" or "AAdvantage Miles"

kebosabi Jan 18, 12 5:06 pm


Originally Posted by mia (Post 17840103)
Very good, and thank you. Suggestions:

Column B will eventually need to accommodate a third Type; Charge. I would call the Travelex card "Prepaid debit"

Column F could be headed "Forex fee" and instead of listing Yes/No the sheet could show 0% 1% 3% etc.

Column G could show the name of the rewards program, such as "Ultimate Rewards" or "AAdvantage Miles"

Feel free to make adjustments as needed; the Google Docs spreadsheet was left editable by anyone if they want to add another field or so. :)

I've also went ahead and posted the link to post #1 of this thread for easier access.

danpeake Jan 19, 12 11:30 am

Why do these all say "2011/1" in the comments field. Should it be 2012/1? Were these available early last year?

LumixFan Jan 19, 12 11:39 am

Fixed the "2011/1" to "2012/1."

kebosabi Jan 19, 12 12:26 pm

Added BMO (Diners Club), PNC (corporate clients only), and Star One CU (in beta-testing) from what I could gather online.

sdsearch Jan 19, 12 1:43 pm


Originally Posted by kebosabi (Post 17845459)
Added BMO (Diners Club)

I changed the annual fee from $300 to $95 on the BMO DC. Now, I don't know if $95 is complete (there are personal and corporate versions of the card, and there may still be a Carte Blance level, which is where the $300 may or may not have come from), but for "ordinary" US-based DC personal (which they call "professional") members I have not heard of a change from the $95 annual fee.

kebosabi Jan 19, 12 6:47 pm

Considering that annual fee and forex fees tend to be the two biggest factors for international travelers, I created a worksheet in tab #2 titled "Annual Fee vs Forex Fee" to compare and contrast between two EMV cards that one might consider depending on your spending habits abroad.

Enter in the data needed where highlighted in light blue and it will automatically calculate the make up cost between card A and B and which one you'll be better off depending on your spending habits abroad.

kebosabi Jan 20, 12 6:35 pm

Added Andrews Federal Credit Union, a credit union based in Suitland, MD.

This one could be the best credit union as of today with $0 annual fee with low 1% forex fee (only what VISA charges), full Chip-and-PIN with rewards, with very eased membership qualifications.


Originally Posted by Andrews FCU qualifications
Our membership includes civilian and military personnel of Andrews Air Force Base, McGuire Air Force Base, and military installations in central Germany, Belgium, and The Netherlands; as well as over 200 groups throughout Maryland and New Jersey.

Not eligible for Andrews Federal membership through one of the groups listed above? You can become eligible through our partnership with the American Consumer Council (ACC). When you join the ACC, you are eligible for membership at Andrews Federal, too. Membership in the ACC is free. For more information, please call 800.487.5500, option 3.


kebosabi Jan 25, 12 1:33 pm

Note made that someone updated the Diners Club section as some US cardholders have begun receiving the new replacement cards.

New Diners Card also have PayPass contactless feature, second card company to issue a mag-stripe + EMV (Chip-and-PIN) + contactless three way hybrid card.

mia Jan 25, 12 1:57 pm


Originally Posted by kebosabi (Post 17885669)
...some US cardholders have begun receiving the new replacement cards[/url].

I think it's more accurate to say that if an existing USA cardholder calls and forces the issue BMO will grudgingly agree to issue a Chip & PIN card. The fact that cardholders cannot change their PIN suggests that the infrastructure is not complete.

Val Jan 25, 12 4:01 pm


Originally Posted by mia (Post 17885849)
The fact that cardholders cannot change their PIN suggests that the infrastructure is not complete.

I asked my final agent if I could walk into a BMO/Harris branch in Chicago to change the PIN. He said no. YMMV.


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