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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature) [2012-2015]

USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature) [2012-2015]

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Old Jan 15, 16, 11:38 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
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Wiki Link
Posts from 1/1/16 onward can be found here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...signature.html

EMV wikipost volunteers: kebosabi

What is EMV?
EMV is a defacto global standard of technology where there is a visible microchip on the front of the card. It looks like this:

Who issues them?
See Google Docs spreadsheet in Post #1

SFOAMS also has created a list of excellent webpage that shows US EMV cards in a more interactive interface

Another site, which lets you narrow the search for an EMV card by various parameters, is http://www.spotterswiki.com/emv/index.php.

Several credit unions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees. USAA (currently restricted to members of military) used to offer Chip-and-PIN cards, but as late has backtracked to Chip-and-Signature priority.

Hey that's a cool Google Docs list! I know others that aren't on that list. How can I help by adding them to the list?
My bad for not putting this into the wiki sooner. Right now, the Google Docs is locked out of editing and only in "read-only" view because there were instances in the past where people would just delete the rows not thinking that it affects others viewing the list.

If you promise not to delete any rows and input all the pertinent info (annual fee, rewards, FTF, etc.), I can provide you with edit access. Just shoot me a PM to kebosabi with your gmail address and I'll provide you edit access.

Thanks for helping out!


As of October 2014, no USA-based card issuer offers Chip-and-PIN priority cards except for BMO Harris (Diners Club) and UN Federal Credit Union. Other major USA-based banks such as BofA, Chase, Citi, as well as others issue Chip-and-Signature cards which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions. It is highly recommended to read Post #3 which lists real life FTer examples on how Chip-and-Signature worked and did not work at various transaction environments.

Can I upgrade it right now?
If it's listed on that Google Docs spreadsheet or SFOAMS' Silk page, wouldn't hurt to call/twitter them for a free upgrade. If you get the response you don't like, hang up, try again.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?
You insert the chipped card into the slot. The physical contact terminal will read the EMV chip and the terminal will automatically read the preferred cardholder verification methods (called CVM) for that card.

Chip-and-Signature means that the terminal will printout a receipt for you to sign. This is the most prevalent authentication for most US issued EMV cards. Chip-and-Signature helps in a way that it will get through to face-to-face merchant transactions where you and the merchant do not speak the same language.

Chip-and-PIN means that the terminal will prompt you to input a PIN for authentication. Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

The Google Docs spreadsheet will list which CVM are used in the EMV cards listed. Some cards can only do Chip-and-Signature. Other cards can do both Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN. And others might have a third option called No CVM (no authentication needed) which is reserved for low value transactions.

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.

Are there any places in the US that are accepting transactions via the EMV chip?
tmiw has created a dedicated Google maps webpage to show where EMV has been proven to work here: http://emvacceptedhere.com/ Per his Post #4240, feel free to add any places with active EMV terminals if you come across one.

As of 2014/05, the EMV terminals in most Walmarts and Sam's Clubs are being turned on. Hence, the best place to try them out would be your local Walmart or Sam's Club. For other merchants, it's slowly being phased in.

I hope people will post them in the Post your receipt of your 1st EMV based transaction in the US thread. cvarming has shown us an EMV transaction receipt from Brooklyn, NY in Post #2380. I myself had my first EMV based (Chip-and-Signature) transaction in two stores in the Los Angeles area, as shown in detail in Post #2705 (courtesy of WhatWhatTech for pointing these two stores out)

I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.
There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote it's capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.


In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the defacto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.

I own several fast food franchises. If I upgrade my POS terminals at all of my restaurants, it's going to cost me thousands, if not millions. I don't think anyone is going to use a fake credit card to buy $5 burgers. And if they do, wouldn't it be cheaper for me to eat the fraud cost?
Remember also that fraud isn't just committed by dishonest customers using fraudulent cards. Fraud can also happen with dishonest employees skimming off credit card data from the mag-stripe as in the case of a teenage McDonald's drive thru employee skimming off $13,000 of customers' credit cards in Olympia, WA. Consider the public relations fall out that your business may have if this happens (i.e. the big Target breach of 2013, where someone used a mag stripe card to load malware INTO Target's system). Is it worth risking to take such a huge PR disaster?
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Old Mar 12, 15, 7:28 pm
  #10171  
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FWIW, my Wells Fargo Visa card is online Sig + offline PIN, with the idea of the latter "filling in the gaps"; their card has been reported working at French gas stations, etc.
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Old Mar 12, 15, 7:40 pm
  #10172  
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Coincidentally that Barclays PINsentry device showed up in my mailbox today:



I tried it with a representative sample of cards and unlike the experience earlier in the thread, the only card that actually worked with this thing was my one chip and PIN card.





Even the card with an offline PIN backup wouldn't work:



I used the Identify mode in all cases since the others ask questions besides my PIN that I'm not sure about. I uploaded the rest of the photos/test results here so that I don't flood this whole thread. In short, I probably wouldn't get one of these if you already have a USB smartcard reader. If you happen to have one of these or don't have enough to buy a USB reader then it might be useful to see if the card's PIN priority.
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Old Mar 12, 15, 7:49 pm
  #10173  
 
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Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR View Post
A couple of other thoughts. Interesting to note that UNFCU we have pretty much agreed has offline pin as a priority; at least I think it's offline pin. They issue visa cards so apparently visa can process offline pin
Yes, the UNFCU cards are visa and they definitely have offline pin as cvm #1 for purchases. In fact they do not support online pin for purchases, only for cash advance.
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Old Mar 12, 15, 7:55 pm
  #10174  
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Is offline PIN the "norm" for non-American cards?
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Old Mar 12, 15, 7:59 pm
  #10175  
 
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Originally Posted by uds0 View Post
2. The MC chip card WILL be PIN PREFERRED, hopefully starting rollout about June timeframe, but will NOT have offline pin (yet). First Tech is pushing for adding offline capability. Processors choose whether to accept or reject offline terminal transactions so they effectively give or deny permission to offline terminals to process offline transactions because those transactions would be "charged back" if the terminals allowed the offline transactions but the processor rejected them upon connecting to upload those transactions.
Sounds like there is some misunderstanding between offline PIN verification and processing the transaction offline. They're orthogonal to each other; an offline PIN transaction can still be processed online, the only part that happens offline is the PIN verification which happens on the chip rather than over the network. It would probably be easier if the terms online and offline hadn't been used to refer to different things.
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Old Mar 12, 15, 8:01 pm
  #10176  
 
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Originally Posted by Points Scrounger View Post
Is offline PIN the "norm" for non-American cards?
Depends on the country. We all seem to often forget, in this forum, that there are several other chip and sign counties out there (Italy, Mexico, etc.)
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Old Mar 12, 15, 8:05 pm
  #10177  
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Originally Posted by Points Scrounger View Post
Is offline PIN the "norm" for non-American cards?
In some. In most others it's online PIN. And there a few signature countries too.

Originally Posted by Points Scrounger View Post
Once again, I'm going to ask: what are these likely offline transactions -- train tickets/petrol pumps mostly, or is there more to it than that?
Originally Posted by uds0 View Post
That should be the majority. Also toll stations, parking garages, possibly small businesses, especially in small towns with less infrastructure. Only those who actually have experience with these specific situations can report with some certainty.

An interesting new thought for me: for those businesses who are still offline and have little funds or incentive to go online, perhaps the offline pin added security might push them into at least getting the pin readers to reduce card present fraud?
Manned merchants were never the issue since they've always been required to accept chip and signature (and thus are always online). The kiosks have traditionally been where acceptance problems were, which are solved by a card with PIN backup. PIN preferred is preferable for other reasons, mainly to reduce lost and stolen fraud and to make sure contactless isn't totally screwed over in the US.

Whether kiosks and gas pumps in the US will use a PIN if it's available? My gut feeling is that they won't unless the card is PIN preferring but I've been wrong before.
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Old Mar 12, 15, 8:06 pm
  #10178  
 
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Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR View Post
Even the cards with back up pins, such as Arrival+, Andrews and the rest of the DC area FCU's will hardly ever use the pin.
Actually, Arrival+ and the other Baclaycard EMV cards as well as the new signature priority USAA cards will still ask for PIN, since they have all three PIN modes before No CVM, unless the kiosk operators turn off PIN authentication completely and rely on No CVM for all transactions. Andrews and Wells Fargo will hit No CVM though, since they have that as higher priority than PIN.
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Old Mar 12, 15, 8:10 pm
  #10179  
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Originally Posted by Hawaiian717 View Post
Actually, Arrival+ and the other Baclaycard EMV cards as well as the new signature priority USAA cards will still ask for PIN, since they have all three PIN modes before No CVM, unless the kiosk operators turn off PIN authentication completely and rely on No CVM for all transactions. Andrews and Wells Fargo will hit No CVM though, since they have that as higher priority than PIN.
Most kiosks in the US don't even have a place to put a PIN pad unless the entire thing's totally replaced or it supported debit cards before (e.g. the USPS stamp machines). That's partly why I think backup PIN use will be fairly rare.
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Old Mar 12, 15, 8:10 pm
  #10180  
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I momentarily freaked out because I had feared that UNFCU cards (mine due to arrive any day now) being "offline" will end up being chip + sig at all but kiosks outside the USA! These is where the term "offline" gets mighty confusing!
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Old Mar 12, 15, 9:11 pm
  #10181  
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I'm pretty confused about this credit card acceptor for vending machines:



Supposedly it's EMV approved but there's no way to insert cards that I can see. Is the EMV approval just for the contactless?
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Old Mar 12, 15, 9:28 pm
  #10182  
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I made two transactions with my Chip and Pin UNFCU card while in Panama. The first at a grocery asked for my pin and after the pin a signature slip got printed. At a restaurant, I told the waitress, this is a chip and pin card, I would need a pad for the pin. She brought a mobile unit. While I was gesturing to her that has a pin and it should be inserted from the bottom, she just went and swiped it on the magnetic swipe and lo behold, I was not even asked for a pin and signature slip got printed out! I was very disappointed. Can anyone tell me how a chip and pin can become a magnetic swipe and signature card? What is the point of the chip and pin card then?
Originally Posted by Points Scrounger View Post
I momentarily freaked out because I had feared that UNFCU cards (mine due to arrive any day now) being "offline" will end up being chip + sig at all but kiosks outside the USA! These is where the term "offline" gets mighty confusing!
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Old Mar 12, 15, 9:36 pm
  #10183  
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Any suggestions or link as to what smart card reader I could buy to try out my own cards at home? A link on Amazon would be nice.
thanks!
Originally Posted by AllieKat View Post
Okay, so here's my step-by-step write-up. Note that this is assuming Fedora 20. If you're on Windows, the process will be much easier (the drivers are built-in). If you're on Mac, it'll be much harder (you need to compile Cardpeek). If you're on a different Linux distro, it'll vary:

1. Buy a smart card reader. I got a little IOGEAR one on Amazon for under $20

2. Install drivers if they aren't in your OS (Windows has them, so do many Linux distros). For Fedora, you'll need these two RPM's that aren't in the Fedora repositories:
http://www.rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2htm...pcsc-lite-ccid
http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/se...uery=pcsc-lite

3. Install Cardpeek. This is included in the Fedora repositories (yet the necessary drivers aren't) so you should just be able to yum install cardpeek (I did it through the GUI). For other OSes find it here if it isn't in your repositories: http://pannetrat.com/Cardpeek/

4. Start Cardpeek and select the reader you wish to use.

5. Insert card.

6. Click "Analyzer" then EMV then click yes.

7. View results. By default it will show an English interpretation of the raw data, you can click at the top to switch between English and raw data.
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Old Mar 12, 15, 9:56 pm
  #10184  
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Originally Posted by upnorth View Post
I made two transactions with my Chip and Pin UNFCU card while in Panama. The first at a grocery asked for my pin and after the pin a signature slip got printed. At a restaurant, I told the waitress, this is a chip and pin card, I would need a pad for the pin. She brought a mobile unit. While I was gesturing to her that has a pin and it should be inserted from the bottom, she just went and swiped it on the magnetic swipe and lo behold, I was not even asked for a pin and signature slip got printed out! I was very disappointed. Can anyone tell me how a chip and pin can become a magnetic swipe and signature card? What is the point of the chip and pin card then?
The PIN feature is linked to the chip; swiping is automatically a signature transaction. YOU were supposed to insert the card in the slot, NOT the server. Be sure it's all the way in as far it can go, which I learned the first time I used a chip card at Wal Mart.

Did the first clerk expect a signature after the PIN went through? Or was the sig slip treated as an "extra" receipt?
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Old Mar 12, 15, 10:06 pm
  #10185  
 
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Originally Posted by Points Scrounger View Post
Thanks for taking care of this! By the way, when you opened your bank account (in person), did they ask to see proof of your membership in the other group? I don't mind paying the eight dollars, but was curious.
I actually retired from a large (for Portland at the time) high tech firm in 1990 that this credit union was actually formed for. It used to be called Tektronix Federal Credit Union when I had a job at Tek and account there.

The $8 ticket to get in I assume should be no issue. The way they process as a loan app and the "traditional" income sources might be a challenge for those who have most of their income from investments so that will need more careful attention to assure they don't discount that out if needed.

Since my Suntrust debit card always asks for a pin if I press Debit or signature if I press credit at checkout, the pin priority may actually not actually be much of an issue with the First Tech debit card (where that choice is provided)?
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