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USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature) [2012-2015]

USA EMV cards: Availability, Q&A (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature) [2012-2015]

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Old Jan 15, 16, 11:38 am   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: philemer
Wiki Link
Posts from 1/1/16 onward can be found here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...signature.html

EMV wikipost volunteers: kebosabi

What is EMV?
EMV is a defacto global standard of technology where there is a visible microchip on the front of the card. It looks like this:

Who issues them?
See Google Docs spreadsheet in Post #1

SFOAMS also has created a list of excellent webpage that shows US EMV cards in a more interactive interface

Another site, which lets you narrow the search for an EMV card by various parameters, is http://www.spotterswiki.com/emv/index.php.

Several credit unions issue some form of Chip-and-PIN credit cards or prepaid cards. Prepaid EMV cards however are not recommended due to junk fees. USAA (currently restricted to members of military) used to offer Chip-and-PIN cards, but as late has backtracked to Chip-and-Signature priority.

Hey that's a cool Google Docs list! I know others that aren't on that list. How can I help by adding them to the list?
My bad for not putting this into the wiki sooner. Right now, the Google Docs is locked out of editing and only in "read-only" view because there were instances in the past where people would just delete the rows not thinking that it affects others viewing the list.

If you promise not to delete any rows and input all the pertinent info (annual fee, rewards, FTF, etc.), I can provide you with edit access. Just shoot me a PM to kebosabi with your gmail address and I'll provide you edit access.

Thanks for helping out!


As of October 2014, no USA-based card issuer offers Chip-and-PIN priority cards except for BMO Harris (Diners Club) and UN Federal Credit Union. Other major USA-based banks such as BofA, Chase, Citi, as well as others issue Chip-and-Signature cards which may work at many automated kiosks. However, bear in mind the word may is used above is a context where there is no absolute certainty of success for certain environments such as automated kiosks due to different natures of offline and online transactions. It is highly recommended to read Post #3 which lists real life FTer examples on how Chip-and-Signature worked and did not work at various transaction environments.

Can I upgrade it right now?
If it's listed on that Google Docs spreadsheet or SFOAMS' Silk page, wouldn't hurt to call/twitter them for a free upgrade. If you get the response you don't like, hang up, try again.

What is the difference between Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN?
You insert the chipped card into the slot. The physical contact terminal will read the EMV chip and the terminal will automatically read the preferred cardholder verification methods (called CVM) for that card.

Chip-and-Signature means that the terminal will printout a receipt for you to sign. This is the most prevalent authentication for most US issued EMV cards. Chip-and-Signature helps in a way that it will get through to face-to-face merchant transactions where you and the merchant do not speak the same language.

Chip-and-PIN means that the terminal will prompt you to input a PIN for authentication. Some credit union issued credit cards will have this CVM as secondary if Chip-and-Signature cannot be done. Chip-and-PIN is the more prevalent method of authentication used outside the US, especially in transaction environments where no human interaction is needed (i.e. automated gas pumps, toll roads, train kiosks, etc.).

The Google Docs spreadsheet will list which CVM are used in the EMV cards listed. Some cards can only do Chip-and-Signature. Other cards can do both Chip-and-Signature and Chip-and-PIN. And others might have a third option called No CVM (no authentication needed) which is reserved for low value transactions.

One chip can hold a lot more data, therefore it is capable of doing multiple verification methods. That's one of the great things about EMV over the mag-stripe which can hold very little data.

I want to know for sure what my EMV chip does. Is there anyway I can test out my own EMV card to see what the CVM list is?
alexmt has written up a nice step-by-step procedure on Post #3615.

If most of the EMV cards in the US is the Chip-and-Signature type, doesn't that mean it's still useless abroad?
Depends if you see it as glass half empty or glass half full. See Post #3 for further details on how Chip-and-Signature has worked both successfully and unsuccessfully depending on the merchant transaction environment and use your best judgment whether which one is right for you.

Are there any places in the US that are accepting transactions via the EMV chip?
tmiw has created a dedicated Google maps webpage to show where EMV has been proven to work here: http://emvacceptedhere.com/ Per his Post #4240, feel free to add any places with active EMV terminals if you come across one.

As of 2014/05, the EMV terminals in most Walmarts and Sam's Clubs are being turned on. Hence, the best place to try them out would be your local Walmart or Sam's Club. For other merchants, it's slowly being phased in.

I hope people will post them in the Post your receipt of your 1st EMV based transaction in the US thread. cvarming has shown us an EMV transaction receipt from Brooklyn, NY in Post #2380. I myself had my first EMV based (Chip-and-Signature) transaction in two stores in the Los Angeles area, as shown in detail in Post #2705 (courtesy of WhatWhatTech for pointing these two stores out)

I don't want a chip in my card. I heard horror stories all over the media saying hackers can steal my credit card info from a mile away.
There are two types of chips. One is contactless and the other is contact. Cards can be either one or the other, or both.

In the Google Docs spreadsheet, the cards that are capable of contactless payments are listed seperately under the "RFID or NFC contactless chip" column. If it says yes, then that means it has the ability to do contactless payments. If it says no, it doesn't have that feature.

The one that the media has overhyped about hackers "stealing your information wirelessly" was the contactless type like this:

You are worried about this happening, right?

You don't have to worry. EMV is a chip standard that can have both contact and contactless interfaces. With the traditional contact interface, this means you actually have to physically insert the chip into a POS terminal for it to be authorized, like this:

With the contact interface, nothing is wireless. No data is sent out in a stand-alone contact type EMV chip. With the EMV contactless interface, data is sent wirelessly.

Furthermore, contactless chip cards are required to show a symbol (looks like Wi-Fi symbol) somewhere on the card that to denote it's capability as a contactless card. For example, here's an example of a Discover Card with contactless capability (in which Discover calls "Discover ZIP") showing the contactless symbol on the back of the card:

Don't believe everything that the media says. Besides, millions of people all over the world from London to Singapore, uses contactless payments daily in extremely crowded subways and mass transit with nary any problems. There are multiple layers of encrypted securities and keys that are needed to break the code.

Frankly, giving your physical card to a waiter/waitress who takes the card out of your view is much more susceptible to fraud than contactless payments.

Why should I care?
If you are an international traveler, you will want this because majority of the world has or in the process of converting to this payment format.


In fact, in 2012, even North Korea moved to the EMV format, leaving the US as one of the countries in the world that hasn't done so.

In addition, VISA, MC, AMEX, and Discover have all agreed to incentivize the USA shifting to EMV payments by 2015 by shifting liability for fraudulent transactions to merchants if they do not have EMV equipment and the cardholder has an EMV card. So if you travel internationally or would like to get one before the others, you might be interested in getting one.


BS! I had no problems using my card in [insert whereever country], [insert whatever point in time]
If you stick to the tourist path where they have lots of visitors from the US, you should have no problems using your mag-stripe only card in hotels and restaurants, at least for now. But as things can change as things go forward.

However, consider that once you start taking the off-beaten path, go to non-touristy places where they are not familiar with mag-stripes, rent a car and use toll roads, fill up gas, or try to buy train tickets you might end up into a trouble of the machine not recognizing your card because it lacks the chip. Furthermore, a lot of toll roads, gas pumps, and automated ticket machines lack any human assistance to help you when you need it the most.

But [insert credit card company] told me all merchants that display their logo must accept them! All I have to do is report them for violating their agreements, right?
There are several factors against this.

1. You can only speak English. The merchant representative, most likely a part-time clerk earning minimum wage, speaks in a different language, let's say French. If you have no French language skills, how are you going to get your point across? Are you going to whip out your cell phone at exorbitant int'l roaming charges and hope the customer service is going to translate it for you on the spot? Or maybe you might actually know French. But how about Swahili, Farsi, Balinese, or the multiple languages in mainland China?

2. Just like US, the rest of the world's businesses uses part-time minimum wage workers as cashiers to cut down on labor costs. Most of their SOP training manuals are written by MBA types to not to do anything they are not familiar with. Do not expect them to understand the intricate details of credit card mumbo jumbo. You don't expect Taco Bell employees to understand the minute details of Discover-JCB-Union Pay agreements, right? Same thing the other way around: be respectful as a guest in their country, prepare in advance in their ways, avoid being an "ugly American" stereotype.

3. You are a guest in their country. You are a minority. If 99.9% of their country's people and other tourists from around the world uses EMV, do you really think they are going to accomodate the 0.1% of American tourists who only have mag-stripes credit cards?

4. Again, you are a guest in their country. How would you, as an American standing in line, react if a Chinese tourist was clogging up the lines at a local Taco Bell because the clerk doesn't understand the Discover-Union Pay agreement and has trouble communicating between Mandarin spoken by the tourist and English spoken by the Taco Bell clerk? Same way the other way around. You do not want to clog up the lines for everyone. The less hassle, the better.

5. VISA and MC make tons of money from merchants in that country. Say SNCF French Rail. It's a billion dollar company in France. Do you think VISA is going to pull the plug of their relationship with SNCF because SNCF refuses to do mag-stripe processing at their unmanned train station kiosk? Of course not. Be realistic.

6. And lastly, if you're up against an unstaffed toll kiosk, gas pump or train ticket machine, are you going to yell curses at the machine?

But I want my credit card to be able to be used in the US too!
No worries. They have not gotten rid of the mag-stripe on the back of the card for backward compatibility reasons, just like we still have embossed numbers on our cards for backwards compatibility to using those old carbon copy imprinters.

[insert own Hyatt card image front and back together with red arrows pointing to all the backward compatibility features]

You use the chip on the front of the card abroad (for now), and the mag-stripe just like any other card for the US. Basically, you're increasing your credit card's acceptance rate by getting a card that both via the chip and the mag-stripe. You're getting a better deal for free.

And when 2015 comes along and US switches to EMV, you'll be way ahead of everyone else too!


So why did the rest of the world and the US moved/moving toward EMV?
Primarily, due to fraud concerns. You see, the mag-stripe has been with us since the 1950s. It may have been the most high tech thing back in the day, but with the technology that is available today, any shmo can pick up a $100 USB magnetic card skimming device off of eBay and get your credit card info.

And unlike skimming off contactless cards which actually need the person to have l33t programming skills, skimming off a magnetic stripe has become so ubiquitous that nary a day goes about skimming fraud going on somewhere in America, from gas pumps, Michael's stores (2011), Target breaches (2013), restaurant waiters/waitresses, to even McDonald's drive thrus.

https://www.google.com/search?q=skimming+fraud

These type of fraud used to be prevalent in Europe. But once they started switching over to EMV starting over 2 decades ago, this type of fraud went elsewhere. It went over to Asia, Canada and Mexico, Latin America, etc. etc. until they too began implementing EMV to combat skimming fraud. The US is practically the only country left that hasn't done so, therefore all the fraud that used to take place elsewhere is now happening here.


But EMV is old and it's not fool proof. Shouldn't we just skip over it and do something new instead?
Yes, EMV is old. It was developed in the 1990s and its smart card payment predecessor was first introduced in France. But as of today, it has become the defacto global standard of payments.

But then, what else is there? There is no other de facto global standard of payments alternative. For example, if we decide to skip over it and do something new, hypothetically like DNA matching technology, it still means US int'l travelers will continue to have problems abroad with useless plastic acceptance because no other country is using this DNA matching technology except the US.

Besides, nothing is fool proof. You can say that the bank vault isn't fool proof because you can crack it open if enough C4 is used. But your average low-life scumbag isn't likely to get military grade C4 easily either. But the bank vault does make it harder to get the bank's money over say a petty cash box. That's the point here. EMV is akin to a security tight bank vault, the old mag-stripe is akin to a petty cash box lying around inside the drawer.


I'm a business owner and I don't think EMV is going to take off. I'm not going to spend extra hundreds of dollars to upgrade my credit card machine. Convince me other wise why I should.
I can understand the added extra cost to your business once this switchover takes place. But before even saying that, look at your existing POS terminal. Does it have a slot somewhere to insert a card?

Most likely, if you had replaced your POS terminal within the past five years, you already have an EMV capable terminal. EMV is basically just not turned on yet from the processor and acquirer side.

If you have an EMV capable terminal, then a best bet would be to contact your acquirer to have the EMV feature turned on. You did your end of the deal already by having an EMV capable terminal, it is now the acquirers' responsibility to turn it on in accordance to the EMV switchover mandate.

And if you don't, you are going to replace your POS terminal anyway from common wear and tear. It isn't a hard switch-over. You can continue to use your POS terminal until it dies out because EMV cardholders will still have the mag-stripe on the back. And by the time your non-EMV capable POS terminal is up for replacement the market will be full with these newer POS terminals that can accept the mag-stripe, EMV, as well as contactless payments.

In addition, you may also want to check with your acquirer or processor about EMV capable terminals. Some of them are willing to replace your terminal for free in preparation for the US EMV switchover. Call and ask for details.


But what's in it for me? I'm the one that has to pay for the upgrade.
All the major card networks have given incentives for merchants for the upcoming EMV switchover.

If 75% or more of your credit card transactions are done on an EMV contact and contactless terminal, they are going to waive your annual PCI-DSS fees, which usually costs you around $5.00-$19.95/month per terminal. The overall long term cost savings of those compliance fees will be larger than the cost of an one time upgrade for the terminal.

The downside is that once EMV switchover happens and if you do not have a POS terminal that is able to accept EMV, the fraud liability shifts over to the merchant.

I own several fast food franchises. If I upgrade my POS terminals at all of my restaurants, it's going to cost me thousands, if not millions. I don't think anyone is going to use a fake credit card to buy $5 burgers. And if they do, wouldn't it be cheaper for me to eat the fraud cost?
Remember also that fraud isn't just committed by dishonest customers using fraudulent cards. Fraud can also happen with dishonest employees skimming off credit card data from the mag-stripe as in the case of a teenage McDonald's drive thru employee skimming off $13,000 of customers' credit cards in Olympia, WA. Consider the public relations fall out that your business may have if this happens (i.e. the big Target breach of 2013, where someone used a mag stripe card to load malware INTO Target's system). Is it worth risking to take such a huge PR disaster?
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Old Jan 12, 14, 7:07 pm
  #2686  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Originally Posted by OverThereTooMuch View Post
Not clear where the "end of 2015" part comes from.
For card holder present transactions, there is an October 2015 date for liability shift for merchants w/o EMV, excluding gas stations, which is in October 2017. It does not guarantee a shift to EMV, but it provides possible financial disincentives to not do it.

And I don't think EMV is a guarantee that there won't be breaches in the future, esp. if the attackers are able to get code inside the POS itself.
EMV should reduce card cloning, but it won't help in other areas such as card holder not present transactions (online purchases).
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Old Jan 12, 14, 7:17 pm
  #2687  
 
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Originally Posted by LoneTree View Post
Even if the POS unit was hacked, won't the One Time Pad nature of EMV prevent merely replicating the same sequence?
Google "EMV preplay Attack"; also "EMV Relay attack" for a different angle.

Since these are out in the wild, one can hope EMV is already trying to plug holes, however small they might be.
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Old Jan 12, 14, 8:58 pm
  #2688  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Originally Posted by patrick.barnes View Post
Maybe... the CC FAQ is here:

http://www.unfcu.org/qa.aspx?id=1038

I don't really know. My SF Fire CU Visa is not a Sig, and has 0% FTF. They're very generous though, so they're probably eating the fee. But UNFCU is 4x bigger than SF Fire CU, so... I don't get it.

The UNFCU debit card seems to only charge 0.8% for ATM withdrawals outside the US, and they say that's just the MasterCard fee for doing it.

Either way, I'll send in the application tomorrow. Love me some CUs.
The debit card charges 0.8% for foreign transactions in US Dollars. If the foreign transaction is in foreign currency, the fee is 1.0%.
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Old Jan 13, 14, 1:26 am
  #2689  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: LAX/SFO/OAK
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More stores currently accepting EMV

Two more stores to add to the list in Los Angeles (South Bay). They take EMV right now both C&S and C&P. A lot of other small shops in the South Bay have them but aren't active yet. I talked to one of those shop owners who said that their acquirer made them purchase an EMV terminal but said they wouldn't activate the chip reader until sometime this year.

Speedi Mart
(liquor store)
975 N Aviation Blvd
Manhattan Beach, CA 90266

Artesia Produce Market
2322 Artesia Blvd
Redondo Beach, CA 90278
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Old Jan 13, 14, 3:38 am
  #2690  
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Originally Posted by cbn42 View Post
I have no problem with DCC. The DCC scam is similar to the high APR scam. It enables the banks to make more money off the suckers, which improves the rewards programs for us.
I don't mind them charging high APR to those who don't pay their bills on time. There's a difference between you making the mistake and paying big to help us, and a suckers scam, which is what DCC is.

Originally Posted by OverThereTooMuch View Post
<Haven't read this thread in a while. Wow, the discussion in here has really gone off the rails.>

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2014...ta-breach?lite



Not clear where the "end of 2015" part comes from. And I don't think EMV is a guarantee that there won't be breaches in the future, esp. if the attackers are able to get code inside the POS itself.
Also not clear why they say it would be a huge undertaking, as I'd venture a guess that most manned POS devices are already EMV-capable.

Originally Posted by WhatWhatTech View Post
Two more stores to add to the list in Los Angeles (South Bay). They take EMV right now both C&S and C&P. A lot of other small shops in the South Bay have them but aren't active yet. I talked to one of those shop owners who said that their acquirer made them purchase an EMV terminal but said they wouldn't activate the chip reader until sometime this year.

Speedi Mart
(liquor store)
975 N Aviation Blvd
Manhattan Beach, CA 90266

Artesia Produce Market
2322 Artesia Blvd
Redondo Beach, CA 90278
Welcome to FT and thanks for the update! You say they take both - do they force PIN ever, or simply allow whichever the default of the card is?
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Old Jan 13, 14, 5:18 am
  #2691  
 
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Target: maware in POS http://recode.net/2014/01/13/what-th...a-ram-scraper/
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Old Jan 13, 14, 5:28 am
  #2692  
 
Join Date: May 2010
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Originally Posted by Majuki View Post
But who's getting the cut with DCC? I thought it was the merchant and POS terminal bank, not the card's issuing bank.
Apparently, the merchant sets the DCC fee, but the banks involved have a stake in the exchange rate used for any transaction too.

For some interesting background, google "dcc fee" and check out (1) the wikipedia article that pops up showing a sample transaction with and without DCC applied, and (2) a Chris Elliott article from the Washington Post of May 20, 2013 (be sure to see the reader comments that follow the article).

There's a lot to be said for the strategy of hitting the ATMs for local currency and doing as many transactions in cash as possible, using credit cards only for the big stuff (hotel, car, air) and watching every credit transaction very carefully.
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Old Jan 13, 14, 6:01 am
  #2693  
 
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Originally Posted by othermike27 View Post
Apparently, the merchant sets the DCC fee, but the banks involved have a stake in the exchange rate used for any transaction too.

For some interesting background, google "dcc fee" and check out (1) the wikipedia article that pops up showing a sample transaction with and without DCC applied, and (2) a Chris Elliott article from the Washington Post of May 20, 2013 (be sure to see the reader comments that follow the article).

There's a lot to be said for the strategy of hitting the ATMs for local currency and doing as many transactions in cash as possible, using credit cards only for the big stuff (hotel, car, air) and watching every credit transaction very carefully.:eek:

Disagree. There's nothing to be said for using anything other than credit cards, no foreign transaction fee credit cards if out of the country of residence, for any purchase large or small. I couldn't begin to have to worry about running out of local currency and sorting through coins and paper currency whether at home at the grocery or while on holiday. I arrive in London, and if necessary make a 10 withdrawal and more often than not, return home with the 10 still in my wallet. The last time I paid cash for anything is let's see some time last April. I will not allow a possible confrontation prevent me from using my credit cards. One time I went into a subway shop in London, ordered a sandwich and at the cashier with all the credit card decals showing offered my credit card and was told sorry 5 minimum. While that is their perogative, I should not be embared as they had no sign indicating such. I was told everybody knows you need a minimum of 5 for credit card transactions in this country. I walked out, leaving them with the sandwich. I will not be intimidated nor should anybody. We've discussed what to do if a merchant refuses to void a dcc transaction. Never offer to pay cash. That just plays into what they're doing. Simply circle the amount in local currency on the slip, cross out the statement write in bold letters local currency not offered and sign. And then dispute the charge It's come to that three times in the last whatever number of years this cancer has been around. Twice the charge was charged back to the scammer; the third time my bank simply refunded the difference as I explained above.

I will not allow myself to be scammed or forced to pay cash for anything unless absolutely necessary.
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Old Jan 13, 14, 6:08 am
  #2694  
 
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Originally Posted by othermike27 View Post
For some interesting background, google "dcc fee" and check out (1) the wikipedia article that pops up showing a sample transaction with and without DCC applied, and (2) a Chris Elliott article from the Washington Post of May 20, 2013 (be sure to see the reader comments that follow the article).
I've read the Wikipedia article before. From Chris Elliott's article here, this quote is amusing, "Visa requires retailers to disclose currency conversion rates plus any associated fees and ensure that cardholders are offered a choice to accept the DCC services."

Yeah, right... It's just like CapitalOne's line for their non-EMV cards where, "Any merchant must accept all cards at the point of sale." With both DCC and EMV, the best we can do is complain, complain, and complain. I agree with your method of using cash for small transactions overseas and saving card use for larger purchases while watching carefully to make sure you don't get hit with DCC. I don't know if you were referring to this article where some comments are saying it's not a scam. I certainly think DCC is a scam, and merchants are sneaky, deceptive, and offer false reasons for saying it must be done that way. I need to make a point of reading the fine print before they swipe my card at a hotel overseas. With an in-person transaction it's somewhat easier because you can see the amount being charged written on thermal paper. Chip-and-PIN is the best defense against this scam because presumably you'd have to be able to see the amount being charged before entering your PIN.
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Old Jan 13, 14, 6:17 am
  #2695  
 
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Originally Posted by JEFFJAGUAR View Post
I will not allow myself to be scammed or forced to pay cash for anything unless absolutely necessary.
No complaints here, but I also want to limit the number of potential disputes I have. I have walked out on merchants who have imposed some arbitrary surcharge or minimum purchase amount before, and they almost always change their tune when you do so. People don't want to be confrontational, so they usually buy an additional item or pay in cash. I also refuse to allow them to scam me, but I take into account the risk/hassle factor of the transaction. For very small purchases, I am likely to use cash from the get go just to avoid a hassle.
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Old Jan 13, 14, 7:44 am
  #2696  
 
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Originally Posted by WhatWhatTech View Post
I talked to one of those shop owners who said that their acquirer made them purchase an EMV terminal but said they wouldn't activate the chip reader until sometime this year.
This might explain a bit of the delay in enabling EMV processing. The POS hardware installers often charge for every feature they enable on the terminal. I'm guessing a lot of merchants don't want to pay for a feature they won't use often.

At least I know that's why a lot of NFC terminals aren't enabled around here.
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Old Jan 13, 14, 8:42 am
  #2697  
 
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Originally Posted by LoneTree View Post
This might explain a bit of the delay in enabling EMV processing. The POS hardware installers often charge for every feature they enable on the terminal. I'm guessing a lot of merchants don't want to pay for a feature they won't use often.

At least I know that's why a lot of NFC terminals aren't enabled around here.
My local Trader Joe's in St. Louis has EMV capable Ingencio terminals, but there is a plastic cover preventing insertion.
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Old Jan 13, 14, 10:03 am
  #2698  
 
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Originally Posted by WhatWhatTech View Post
Speedi Mart
(liquor store)
975 N Aviation Blvd
Manhattan Beach, CA 90266

Artesia Produce Market
2322 Artesia Blvd
Redondo Beach, CA 90278
Cool, thanks for sharing! These places are right around my neighborhood; I'll go try them out today then! If they do work, they'll actually be my first EMV purchase in the US.

Originally Posted by joshwex90 View Post
Welcome to FT and thanks for the update! You say they take both - do they force PIN ever, or simply allow whichever the default of the card is?
I'll go and test them out today, probably use AndrewsFCU and Chase Hyatt to see which way it goes through as.

Last edited by kebosabi; Jan 13, 14 at 10:10 am
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Old Jan 13, 14, 2:01 pm
  #2699  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Originally Posted by joshwex90 View Post
Welcome to FT and thanks for the update! You say they take both - do they force PIN ever, or simply allow whichever the default of the card is?
Thanks for the welcome! All my cards are C&S (Amex and Citi), but I have tested all of them at both locations and they all work as intended. The liquor store I just swiped my card one day (it had a wire attached mini pin pad with a swipe reader and a chip reader) and it said "insert card" to my surprise. The owner of the shop behind the counter offered to help but I told him "no I can do it". So I inserted it and left it in there until I signed the receipt the guy had handed me. After that the mini pin pad started beeping and displayed "remove card".

The Artesia Produce Market was nowhere near as smooth and should stand as a lesson of why it is important to train your shop staff. The people here had no idea what to do with my card. They kept on trying to swipe it. They didn't have the mini pin pad in front of the customer so that I could help them. In the end they manually entered my card number and they did this every time I shopped there for nearly over a month. Then I went in one day and they had figured it out. I handed my card to them and they inserted it into the mini pin pads card reader and the transaction went through as a chip and signature transaction. I suspect that the problems at this store were two fold. The first being that they had no training with chip cards on their new EMV terminal and the second being that the one cashier who is their most of the time speaks almost no English. He probably couldn't understand what the terminal meant when it told him to "insert card". Anyway, all their staff is now trained to use chip cards properly.

I just hope that the rollout of EMV terminals in the US this year isn't plagued with these sorts of undertraining problems.

Originally Posted by kebosabi View Post
Cool, thanks for sharing! These places are right around my neighborhood; I'll go try them out today then! If they do work, they'll actually be my first EMV purchase in the US.



I'll go and test them out today, probably use AndrewsFCU and Chase Hyatt to see which way it goes through as.
I figured you were from the South Bay too when I saw your post about the Torrance Walmart (which I had tried too). I think your AndrewsFCU card will go through as a C&S transaction since it's listed as priority 1 and these are obviously online terminals.

Originally Posted by LoneTree View Post
This might explain a bit of the delay in enabling EMV processing. The POS hardware installers often charge for every feature they enable on the terminal. I'm guessing a lot of merchants don't want to pay for a feature they won't use often.

At least I know that's why a lot of NFC terminals aren't enabled around here.
The shop owner that I spoke to said that he wanted to enable the chip reader, but the acquirer couldn't do it and wouldn't do it until later this year.

I think the reason why we see so many disabled chip readers on terminals is because a) the acquirer doesn't support EMV yet or b) it's a big box retailer like Target or 7-11 who's own backend must be updated to support EMV. Keep in mind that a big box retailer's card processing backend is much more complicated. The card processing systems are linked to a bunch of other systems that the store uses. This could require a lot of changes to their systems.
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Old Jan 13, 14, 2:59 pm
  #2700  
 
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Originally Posted by WhatWhatTech View Post
The shop owner that I spoke to said that he wanted to enable the chip reader, but the acquirer couldn't do it and wouldn't do it until later this year.
Weren't acquirers required to support EMV by April 1, 2013?

Of course I wouldn't be surprised if they just ignored the deadline.
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