Glad I can provide you with some motivation to respond, even if it's a less than productive and not very respectful response. :D

My credit union passes through the 1% VISA ISA fee as a separate line item (which I understand and have clearly stated before is NOT a foreign transaction fee, although some banks roll it into their 3% foreign transaction fee and thus don't charge 2 separate fees of that 1% VISA ISA fee pass through + 2% fee for them for nothing but greed!)

I appreciate your clarification that this one 1% fee isn't subject to the settlement agreement with VISA. Still, it must be disclosed per:

"Two federal laws -- the Truth in Lending Act (Regulation E and Regulation Z) and the Truth in Savings Act -- require banks and financial institutions to disclose when such fees are passed on to debit card and credit card holders"

http://www.creditcards.com/credit-ca...sment-fee-1267

so hiding it in the exchange rate might technically be legal I guess, but doesn't that go against the disclosure intent?

Here is some sample language about the VISA ISA 1% fee from a CU account disclosure that should be representative of how this fee might be disclosed ("us" and "we" are the CU):

"Visa USA charges us an International Service Assessment of up to 1% on all international transactions, regardless of whether there is a currency conversion. We may pass this International Service Assessment on to you. An international transaction is a transaction where the country of the merchant is outside the USA. "

This does not speak to whether the fee is actually a separate charge on the statement, and my CU does list it separately.

Certainly not as clear as I'd hoped.

There was a class action lawsuit about this some years back. It's a separate line item.

This has been debated quite a bit. Please cite the part of that suit that requires the separate line.

I'm not here to debate you and cite lines from a lawsuit. Several people have tried explaining how this works based on facts and from experience. Feel free to continue tilting at windmills and your quixotic quest though.

No debate going on here. Since I have seen lots of discussion that indicates a different conclusion that you asserted, the reasonable thing to do is to ask for specific clarification of why you made such an assertion.

Please don't poke at me just because you are simply unwilling to back up your statement.

That's all I was asking for since there are many misstatements in blogs not based on actual fact or evidenced by even consistent behavior.

We're all just trying to get the best quality information here.

I have certainly misstated things, regretted it, and hopefully improved the quality of my posts as a result. I have been much more thorough in researching before make absolute statements, and can provide my references as needed.

Would you say that State Farm is basically like how Fidelity(rarely charges, but does it for certain atm) is except we do not know the rate passed while Fidelity clearly states it is 1%?

He is saying that if there is a rate passed on, it would be 1%.
That being said, there is no rate passed on

What kind of fee might the "Foreign (on top of regular external charge) Fee" column in the chart show please?

Should this be: "Foreign ATM fee (above External ATM fee)"?

Is/should the chart be limited to only No Annual Fee Debit cards?

After [another] closer look at the State Farm Bank ATM reimbursement policy:

https://www.statefarm.com/finances/b...unt-access/atm

I updated the chart to show that ALL ATM fees, including balance inquiry, are reimbursed by State Farm. Since their reps are not consistent about the VISA ISA 1% fee being passed through or not, I appreciate folks using the card reporting in on actual use results which include whether this separate 1% VISA network usage fee charged to the bank rather than the card holder (which is not an FTF fee but many banks who do charge fees either call it that or include it in their fee, if any) appears separately on their statement, is included in the purchase amount, or is hidden in the exchange rate.

Chart shows 0% FTF or "other" international fee for Fidelity but fine print on web site states:

"Please note, a foreign transaction fee of one percent is not waived"

Which is real please?

From others who posted their experiences I think it just means that if there is a 1% fee charged, they will not waive it. But field wise, only certain atms do make them charge the 1%. I do wish we have more field experience of state farm bank.

I don't see how the VISA ISA fee can be ATM specific since it is the fee that VISA charges the issuing bank. Anyone have info that indicates that VISA ISA fee is not charged to one bank vs another?

Now that I fully appreciate that State Farm Bank reimburses ATM cash withdrawal fees AND other ATM fees such as balance inquiry and balance transfers (only bank that I know of that does this), and have known that they support local ATM deposits (which Schwab doesn't), I will apply for one shortly and use in Europe in April and post my actual experience on this new journey.

Yeah me neither.. sorry I can't be much of help. Keep us posted on your state farm bank experience. Schwab is nice, but I can't really use it as a ach hub since they have 3-4 day holds when you pull money. However, I believe state farm bank takes 2 days. Oh, can you let us know how fast ach pull and pushes are as well for state farm bank?

In my experience and from what I've read, ACH transactions pretty much always take 2-3 days for the side receiving the funds. The party line is that the funds can be pulled back within that time frame, thus the hold.

State Farm has the ATM deposit feature that might avoid that delay if cash is deposited?

In my experience, Sun Trust has reduced the hold time after a few months of history, so the hold time does appear to be a policy issue by bank. Sun trust doesn't have anything compelling (and is a pain sometimes due to lack of free local ATM access and demands that some things can ONLY be done at a branch - stupid for an online bank across the country from me). Also, they and banks that have no provision to reset a pin besides sending it to a home address are a major pain when traveling.

Correct. This happened on a withdrawal made at BNP at Aix-en-Provence. a 1% fee was separately listed as "purchase" on the withdrawal slip. That was in the Fall of 2013.

And yes, it is ATM specific for this is the ONLY ATM that I have encountered that shows a 1% separate line item, among may be 50+ withdrawals in the past 18 months in Europe and Asia. Nor there is any 1% padding on the exchange rates being used.

I cannot believe the topic is still in discussion on the same old cards after dozs posts and months passed.

How much potential "spoilage" we are talking about here? difference at the most has been 0.2 to 0.3% versus the mean intra-day historical rate (You do know that rate changes literally every minute of the day in real time, even on a calm market day, right?) For a hypothesis $1000 spend on a trip, that 0.2% would be a whopping $2 grand total. Some folks spend countless hours trying to get a "definite" answer on something that amounts so little... wow.

Ok, so this is most likely an ATM fee - not a VISA ISA fee. Thanks!

I somehow forgot but have you looked into TD Ameritrade? I think they dont pass the 1% and they have same day atm reimbursement. Maybe im missing something... Never mind it only says it reimburses nationwide.

I've never heard of annual fee debit cards. I have heard of debit cards connected to bank accounts with monthly maintenance fees, and you can feel free to add that column in

I have one! <g> It's a Delta airmile MC debit card (Sun Trust; sadly, no long available since June 2014) and the only current true airmile debit card that I am aware of. This card is very valuable when paying taxes because it limits the max fee to less than $3 for up to $30,000 tax payment instead of 2% "convenience" fee charged for credit card! Got me (with alot of flexibility and time searching and negotiating with airline - a real personal challenge with a very satisfying payoff) and another card holder 2 business class round trips from Oregon to Istanbul return from Amsterdam recently via airmiles for $200 (200k Delta airmiles including another 2 Amex Delta 40k signup bonuses) - a $10,000+ fare value! Yep, those fake "airmile" cards with no blackout dates really pale to actual airmile cards.

A reasonable policy on charts is to never add a column unless a significant portion of the rows have a value in that column. Instead, a note should be added for the few exceptions like this one. In those rare situations, using a consistent key word in the notes supports searching by that characteristic if desired and supports validating key values for consistency.

On the other hand, when using a actual database, any data element that has substantial impact should have it's own column (otherwise know as field to us old timers!) so that it can be indexed and thus provide very fast access to rows (items) that have that characteristic. Filters are MUCH slower for significant database sizes. I am a professional software database application developer for over 30 years, so I have serious experience with this stuff.

I did too. There are soooo many sneaky fees that need to be considered:

1. Foreign Trasaction Fee
2. VISA International Service Assessment network VISA use fee (or other network equivalent). NOTE: Some US banks may actually also charge a fee with this same name for Home Equity Line of Credit accessed via VISA card (should be disclosed)! http://www.bankersonline.com/forum/u...&Number=381425 (bankers discussion group)
3. ATM fee for cash advance/balance inquiry/funds transfer/... (operator)
4. ATM fee for cash advance/balance inquiry/funds transfer/... (issuer)
5. Purchase fee (store)
6. Purchase fee (issuer)
7. Exchange rate piggyback
8. teller "cash advance" fee on debit card! It is considered a "cash advance", but not a "cash advance" on a credit card, because it is from a different bank than the one where the funds are.
9. Dynamic Currency Conversion fee
10. whatever they choose to charge and call it fee
11. VISA exchange rate vs bank to bank exchange rate
12. ...

So, you have to be VERY aware of what you paid vs what the original purchase amount was to confirm that you got what you paid for.

I haven't seen many data points in regards to state farm bank's ach. I saw one on a thai website saying that they always get it next day at around 7 PM EDT(ach pull, I believe ach push is dependent on the sender's bank). However, that was in 2011 when it was subject to next day availability. Looks like now state farm bank adds another day now according to policy. And sorry I've gotten off-topic but yeah the local bank I am looking at with its debit card is stating that MasterCard may impose a fee, but they told me it depends on the currency rate and they could not determine the exact fee. What does that mean for me is what I want to know...

No, it is a Visa 1% fee, NOT an ATM fee.

It is exactly 1% of the withdrawal and when I asked Fido they confirmed that is Visa Fee.

May be I should say that not all ATMs programmed to charge the 1% fee. At that BNP location, there were literally 5 or 6 ATMs there, EACH of them is a different looking machine, but ALL of them belong to BNP, INSIDE the enclave of the bank after the main door, but before the door led into the banking hall. The one I happened to use, looked much newer style than others. I have no idea if other ATMs would also charge the 1%. I only knew this one I used had a weird place to insert the card and a very tiny space for you to grab your card when the machine signaled you to get your card, by an animated pair of eyes that kept looking side way, and I could not figure out what that was for! By the time I finally understood what it meant, it was too late, my card was retreating back into the machine...

I will tell you what is an ATM fee - at ICN, every single machine at the arrival hall, has a charge, and clearly specifies on the withdrawal screen, as well as on the receipt.

Ditto at BKK luggage claim area but once you get out of it, the ATMs at the arrival hall some of them dont have a fee.

All ATMs that charge a fee, would CLEARLY tell you there is a fee and ask you to confirm if you want to proceed.

This BNP ATM did not tell me anything - only when I looked at the slip I saw the 1% line item, classified as "purchase".

Once again, you make a WRONG assumption.

Mileage earning debit cards have fee.

The discontinued BofA AS card has a $35 annual fee.

The soon-to-be-discontinued SunTrust DL card has a $75 annual fee.

The long gone Chase CO card also has a $75 fee.

But those cards should NOT even in the discussion on this thread as they are specialty debit cards and only Fools would use them to withdraw cash overseas because the sole purpose of these specialty debit cards is to earn miles when they are used to make a PURCHASE.

So why even include these specialty debit cards in the mix?

Why be so abrasive with the "my way or the highway" responses?

I simply provided an example of a debit card that the poster didn't have any examples of.

Why be so abrasive with your responses?

Since "BNP ATM did not tell me anything" and there was only a "purchase" as description for the separate 1% item, who's to say with 100% confidence who charged that fee? Many of us have had experience with reps who have provided incorrect fee descriptions.

ATM fee must be disclosed BEFORE making the transaction. It is amazing after so many posts and research and bugging various banks, you still do not get this concept down.

Let's go over the BASIC CONCEPT again - Since BNP's ATM did not tell me anything there was a fee, on the screen, BEFORE transaction being processed, and ONLY showed it on the receipt - any intelligent person would suspect this is NOT an ATM fee.

On top of that, it is 1% of 100 euro. In my experiences of ATM fees, I have NEVER seen an ATM fee that neatly fits to 1% of the withdrawal amount, AND showed up AFTER the transaction without ANY prior warning. Most fees are a fixed amount, and I have never encountered an European ATM charges a fee. I only encountered ATMs charge fee in Asian Airports, so far.

Based on your posts on the quest of finding the surest thing with guaranteed words, despite tens of people posted based on their actual experiences on various cards, I feel confident that you have little experiences in real life in making cash withdrawals at overseas ATMs. I have enough experiences in making international ATM withdrawals to know how things work. i am making the conclusion based on real life experiences, not hearsay and not experiences with poking here and there. 3 or 4 international trips a year, 70% of them are RTW, number of currencies involved sometimes can reach an annoying level of 7 or 8, I think I have enough experiences to give some real life examples that are useful and reliable.

It is called empirical evidence if you will. One would learn something after having made cash withdrawals in 2 doz countries and 15 currencies in past 2 years. How things work, or the field tests, would be far more useful and reliable than the quest of getting a written definition on the terms.

Fido confirmed this is NOT ATM fee as I suspected, and they would NOT reimburse it.

You read too fast and jump to your ASSUMPTION too quick.

Because those cards are IRRELEVANT for the most part - this thread is searching for 0% forex fee debit cards and those got ATM fee reimbursed cards - those specialty debit cards are NEITHER.

Google Doc - Debit Cards Available with no Fees

If this is the quest, then why clutter the data base with something totally irrelevant by bring in fee-based specialty debit cards ? Just to show you know something others dont? even that something is of no bearing in the pursuit? Just dont make any sense to bring in fee-based debit cards to the table or discussion.

Language such as "any intelligent person" and other absolutes that are do not add value to the subject being discussed provide no benefit.

I recognize your vast real world experience and intelligence.

Unfortunately, the actual words I used don't seem to be taken at face value.

We both agree that only the actual experience counts.

Any assumption about my experience is unfounded.

Let's add value to the discussion.

PayPal debit card is missing from the Wiki.

Why no one replied to my post, is because I'm newbie?

Well,
I got their card, and I just tried it on Friday and I'm waiting for the transaction to post, and once it's posted I can let you know if I'm going to pay any fee or not.

Also, you can link an external bank account to the card (mine is Citibank) and they count the scheduled day of transfer as the day you paid back the balance. I'm just waiting to see if they really charge me anything or not, but in the paper I received with this card in the mail it clearly says:

http://gamblingstories.com/PenFed.png

So let's see if it's true or not.

Why there is no mention of the CPC debit card from Chase? I have it and its the best... Chase Private Client Debit Card

When a credit card says there is no forex fee you are fine. However, debit cards are a different story. Most debit cards from the bank pass on the Visa ISA fee(1%) so you really have to scrutinize the debit cardholder agreement.

Thanks. I will also confirm it once the transaction is posted.
Besides StateFarm and Charles Schwab which are mentioned in this forum - are there any other CREDIT (or DEBIT) cards that provide you with the same thing? I am abroad with a US bank account (actually 2 accounts now, Citibank and PenFed Savings) ... I'd like to withdraw foreign currency abroad using my US accounts OR credit cards ... which others can be useful?

How do you get it?
Do you need to deposit like $50,000 to be a private client?

You want to withdraw local cash from an ATM using a either a debit card or a credit card?

Exactly.
I'm currently in Israel (the little country in the middle east).

On Friday I went to the ATM and took out 400 Israeli Shekels.
The USD/ILS exchange rate at that time was 3.95 (Shekels to 1 dollar).

So that means PenFed should charge me approximately $101.26 USD.

I'm waiting for the transaction to post and confirm whether that's what they charged me or not.

As for your question - yes, exactly, I want to withdraw local cash (right now it's Shekels but soon I'm going to Taiwan, so I want to withdraw there TWD) - and take it from my USD account. Which other cards can do the job? :confused:

If you only want to withdraw cash, then I recommend not using a credit card. Even the best credit card in terms of no fee and best rate will get you on the cash advance fees/interest.

My recommendation is to use the PenFed debit card at bank ATMs only (don't use at standalone ATMs). (Note that Bank Hapoalim ATMs randomly decide that they don't accept international cards.) With that, you'll be fine.

Though if you have a credit card that doesn't charge a fee, you may as well use that wherever possible as most places take credit card in Israel. Cash is really needed only for most (but not all) public transportation.

And to your question of which cards, there are a number of cards that you can use that won't charge a fee for withdrawing internationally that have been discussed. I recommend State Farm and others here have recommended Charles Schwabb. Both will get the job done. You also, depending on where you live and how much you keep in your checking account, may have other options such as TD Premier checking which doesn't charge any fees and has no monthly maintenance fees, provided you maintain a minimum monthly balance of $2500.