USA issuers announce EMV cards (Chip & PIN -or- Chip & Signature).
May 13, 2011, 3:04 am
#46
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I have both an Amex International Dollar Card and a Euro card. I got a letter from Amex in the post today telling me I have to pick a PIN by May 22 for my dollar card as my new Chip & PIN card will be arriving soon. My dollar card expires at the end of July. Nothing so far about my Euro card, but that card doesn't expire until 2013!
Hopefully I can change my Euro card to a Chip & PIN card before it expires. Amex can be a nuisance to use in Europe, especially without a chip.
Hopefully I can change my Euro card to a Chip & PIN card before it expires. Amex can be a nuisance to use in Europe, especially without a chip.
May 23, 2011, 10:50 am
#47
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BMO to issue chip-and-PIN cards to US Diners Club holders and small to mid-size BMO account holders
One bank finally getting the program right: chip-and-PIN (as opposed to chip-and-signature) and as an optional service per customer request (as opposed to a trial run to a small select group of people).
BMO (Bank of Montreal) operates under the Harris Bank name in the US with substantial presense in the Chicago and Midwest area and they recently bought Diners Club US' operations from Citi.
Interesting note from the article: the BMO spokesperson mentioned the lack of card manufacturers in the US which are capable to produce such cards. But I guess Canada can make them on our behalf and ship them right across the border. Sad we have to ask other countries to produce these for us.
One bank finally getting the program right: chip-and-PIN (as opposed to chip-and-signature) and as an optional service per customer request (as opposed to a trial run to a small select group of people).
BMO (Bank of Montreal) operates under the Harris Bank name in the US with substantial presense in the Chicago and Midwest area and they recently bought Diners Club US' operations from Citi.
Interesting note from the article: the BMO spokesperson mentioned the lack of card manufacturers in the US which are capable to produce such cards. But I guess Canada can make them on our behalf and ship them right across the border. Sad we have to ask other countries to produce these for us.
Last edited by kebosabi; May 23, 2011 at 11:04 am
May 23, 2011, 11:10 am
#48
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BMO to issue chip-and-PIN cards to US Diners Club holders and small to mid-size BMO account holders
One bank finally getting the program right: chip-and-PIN (as opposed to chip-and-signature) and as an optional service per customer request (as opposed to a trial run to a small select group of people).
BMO (Bank of Montreal) operates under the Harris Bank name in the US with substantial presense in the Chicago and Midwest area and they recently bought Diners Club US' operations from Citi.
Interesting note from the article: the BMO spokesperson mentioned the lack of card manufacturers in the US which are capable to produce such cards. But I guess Canada can make them on our behalf and ship them right across the border. Sad we have to ask other countries to produce these for us.
One bank finally getting the program right: chip-and-PIN (as opposed to chip-and-signature) and as an optional service per customer request (as opposed to a trial run to a small select group of people).
BMO (Bank of Montreal) operates under the Harris Bank name in the US with substantial presense in the Chicago and Midwest area and they recently bought Diners Club US' operations from Citi.
Interesting note from the article: the BMO spokesperson mentioned the lack of card manufacturers in the US which are capable to produce such cards. But I guess Canada can make them on our behalf and ship them right across the border. Sad we have to ask other countries to produce these for us.
Oberthur and Gemalti (not sure of spelling) are the 2 biggest and I'm sure are hoping all of the US issuers finally make the move. I'm just looking forward to not having to stand in the ticket queue at Victoria Station.
May 23, 2011, 11:12 am
#49
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Thank you. I have created an Announcement in the Diners Club section of Flyertalk pointing to this thread. Unfortunately, Diners has not accepted new account applications from individuals in Canada or the USA for a few years. It will be interesting to see if BMO includes personal cardholders in this program, their focus seems to be on corporate accounts, and they are in process of replacing Citi-issued swipe cards with their own swipe cards.
Two remarks in the article are of broader interest:
Mr Hart asserts that Chip & Signature doesn't solve the unattended transactions problem, but then talks about stripes versus chips and ignores the other possibility: that unattended transactions could be completed with a Chip card without a PIN.
Two remarks in the article are of broader interest:
Issuers in the United States, he added, have been slow to issue chip-embedded cards because "it's expensive," initially four to five times the cost of a mag stripe card. The bigger problem is that issuers haven't found many chip partners to encode and personalize the chips to card network standards. "Our chip partner isn't fully there yet in the United States," Hart acknowledged.
Chase said it would debut chip-and-signature cards in June with some of its highest-spending cardholders. But chip-and-signature, Hart argued, "doesn't solve the unattended transactions in Canada or in Europe. Merchants can make a choice to continue to accept mag stripe on an unattended device or say that they're doing 100 percent chip. In Europe, they've already made that choice" and converted kiosks to chip-only, so travelers will find that magnetic stripe cards don't work in unattended machines.
May 24, 2011, 12:29 pm
#50
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FYI, for those interested in obtaining Travelex Chip & PIN Cash Passport cards, starting today they've started offering an online purchase option for those cards http://www.us.travelex.com/US/Home/
1. Select "Purchase Cash Passport"
2. Choose Euro or GBP Chip & PIN Cash Passport
3. Enter value you want to purchase (at bad exchange rates)
When purchasing, they give you an option to be delivered to your address for a nominal fee or free pick up at your nearest Travelex or select US Bank branches.
The cons are the poor exchange rate and the purchase options being only VISA or MC with no ACH debit selection directly from your checking account to avoid being dinged as cash advance on your credit card.
1. Select "Purchase Cash Passport"
2. Choose Euro or GBP Chip & PIN Cash Passport
3. Enter value you want to purchase (at bad exchange rates)
When purchasing, they give you an option to be delivered to your address for a nominal fee or free pick up at your nearest Travelex or select US Bank branches.
The cons are the poor exchange rate and the purchase options being only VISA or MC with no ACH debit selection directly from your checking account to avoid being dinged as cash advance on your credit card.
Last edited by kebosabi; May 24, 2011 at 12:39 pm
Jun 1, 2011, 11:14 am
#51
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Silicon Valley Bank First To Deliver Chip-Enabled Credit Cards to Businesses in the U.S.
SVB Financial, based in Santa Clara, CA becomes the first bank to start issuing EMV Chip-and-Signature cards to businesses. Per info, businesses can start applying for a chip-and-PIN enabled World Elite Mastercard already.
Tally seems to be growing every month now as we now have UNFCU, SECU (North Carolina), Travelex, Wells Fargo, Chase, BMO Diners Club, and now SVB. Shouldn’t be too long of a wait for other banks to start issuing them soon.
SVB Financial, based in Santa Clara, CA becomes the first bank to start issuing EMV Chip-and-Signature cards to businesses. Per info, businesses can start applying for a chip-and-PIN enabled World Elite Mastercard already.
Tally seems to be growing every month now as we now have UNFCU, SECU (North Carolina), Travelex, Wells Fargo, Chase, BMO Diners Club, and now SVB. Shouldn’t be too long of a wait for other banks to start issuing them soon.
Jun 1, 2011, 11:38 am
#52
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However, I do not see a bank which will offer EMV without a foreign transaction fee on the same card. If you had one card with EMV and (say) a 3% fee, and one or more cards with no fee, how would you actually use them when travelling?
Jun 1, 2011, 11:45 am
#53
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The point of this thread is that there are places US'ers encounter while travelling that don't take your card, whether it has a fee or not. There are a few ways of working around this, and they all involve (for now) some amount of prior planning, some amount of fee, and some amount of hassle. But whatever it is, it's far better than not being able to do the transaction. This latest announcement means there's Yet Another Way to get around the problem, and yes: it does involve using a different card than you'd like to use, whether that means not getting points for the program you're interested in or not getting a benefit like lower-or-free exchange fees.
Someday: your favorite card will have a CHIP+PIN feature, and you'll be happy.
Today: *shrug*
Jun 1, 2011, 11:48 am
#54
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OTOH, lots of data shows that US financial companies have been missing out on billions in foreign charges that otherwise would've been put onto a credit card due to lack of uniform technological standards between the US and the rest of the world.
Even without foreign transaction fees, that's quite an amount US banks are losing out on charging interest on.
Either way, at least there's options to choose from as fall back when merchants or kiosks abroad won't accept your mag-stripe only CapOne card. Sure the 3% fee sucks, but 3% on a €5 train ticket isn't so to consider it as some sort of convenience fee.
This latest announcement means there's Yet Another Way to get around the problem, and yes: it does involve using a different card than you'd like to use, whether that means not getting points for the program you're interested in or not getting a benefit like lower-or-free exchange fees.
A year ago we were complaining that there were ZERO options for Americans to get around this problem. Now we have SEVERAL. Several is a lot better than zero.
Sure, we're not yet seeing the golden goose of say a Chip-and-PIN/PayPass/mag-stripe three way hybrid CitiAAdvantage World Elite Mastercard with no forex fees, but I'd still take the available option of a Travelex chip-and-PIN EUR/GBP card with horrid exchange rates over absolutely nothing. But so long as there's something now, that means there that more possibility that there will be the golden goose card that FTers want in the near future.
The gas pedal has been pressed to finally start getting over the hill and that's what all matters.
Last edited by kebosabi; Jun 1, 2011 at 12:18 pm
Jun 2, 2011, 9:51 am
#55
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Interesting read on why those banks who are implementing EMV, are going to chip-and-signature instead of chip-and-PIN:
More Issuers Offering EMV Cards, But Drop The PIN
From a SVB rep:
Umm, isn't that one of the major problems where our mag-stripes don't work? The US banks just don't seem to "get" it.
More Issuers Offering EMV Cards, But Drop The PIN
From a SVB rep:
“Our commercial card clients aren’t carrying PIN numbers,” says Pradeep T. Moudgal, Silicon Valley head of global cards and merchant services. “This simplifies it for a lot of people. It’s not that we don’t want to go with chip and PIN.”
Moudgal admits there are still points of friction but says signature-only EMV cards will be useful in most situations.
“Where they can’t use the card is at transit stops, and kiosks,” says Moudgal. “But other than that, it’s fine.”
Moudgal admits there are still points of friction but says signature-only EMV cards will be useful in most situations.
“Where they can’t use the card is at transit stops, and kiosks,” says Moudgal. “But other than that, it’s fine.”
Umm, isn't that one of the major problems where our mag-stripes don't work? The US banks just don't seem to "get" it.
Jun 2, 2011, 10:57 am
#56
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There seems to be a factual disagreement. Here we have a Chase executive explicitly stating that Chip & Signature is compatible with the same devices:
http://www.colloquy.com/breaking_view.asp?uid=8077
Rather than speculating, we need input from those who have Chip & Signature cards.
David Porter, general manager, Chase Card Services. "The addition of chip-and-signature technology enables Chase cardmembers to enjoy simplified transactions in Europe, such as seamlessly using point-of-sale kiosks and train ticket turnstiles the same way the locals can, ...
Rather than speculating, we need input from those who have Chip & Signature cards.
Jun 2, 2011, 12:31 pm
#57
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I also don't buy the whole difficulty of attaching the functionality of both signature and PIN to the chip; our ancient mag-stripes cards already have the same functionality to do both.
When people use their debit cards (i.e. BofA VISA debit/ATM card) to buy gas or the groceries they enter their PINs after swiping it, right? And yet the same card can also selected as "credit" on said terminals which requires a signature.
Same with credit cards (i.e. CitiAAdvantage World Elite Mastercard); at gas stations, the process we do to enter our zip code after dipping it into the reader is quite similar to a PIN entry; there's nothing to sign. If someone wants access to emergency cash during a crisis, our credit cards already have those PIN numbers that we received when we first signed up (doubt anyone remembers theirs though) so they can get emergency funds from any ATM, right?
So what's all the hub-bub of just signature only on a more advanced chip instead of both PIN and signature?
When people use their debit cards (i.e. BofA VISA debit/ATM card) to buy gas or the groceries they enter their PINs after swiping it, right? And yet the same card can also selected as "credit" on said terminals which requires a signature.
Same with credit cards (i.e. CitiAAdvantage World Elite Mastercard); at gas stations, the process we do to enter our zip code after dipping it into the reader is quite similar to a PIN entry; there's nothing to sign. If someone wants access to emergency cash during a crisis, our credit cards already have those PIN numbers that we received when we first signed up (doubt anyone remembers theirs though) so they can get emergency funds from any ATM, right?
So what's all the hub-bub of just signature only on a more advanced chip instead of both PIN and signature?
Last edited by kebosabi; Jun 2, 2011 at 12:43 pm
Jun 2, 2011, 1:20 pm
#58
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Money. Card issuers have worked themselves into a corner in the USA market. They collect much smaller transaction fees on PIN-based debit transactions than they do on signature-based transactions. They have trained their customers, and written their contracts, using the PIN as the signifier. If they introduce PIN-based credit card transactions the large chain merchants will demand a corresponding reduction in the transaction fees. If I were a credit card issuer I would want to keep pushing this confrontation into the future, and that's what PIN & Signature accomplishes.
Jun 2, 2011, 1:47 pm
#59
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Case in point: Living in the West Coast, many would know the monotonous tone of cashiers saying "credit is free, debit is 75 cents" at Carl's Jr. Similar with Arco gas stations in CA; using debit with PIN tacks on additional fee as opposed to paying cash.
Jun 2, 2011, 2:50 pm
#60
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In this article "offline" and "online" do not refer to the internet, but rather to the use of a PIN to authorize the immediate transfer of funds from your account.
http://banking.about.com/od/checking...itvscredit.htm
Who cares how each transaction is processed? You might not, but banks and retailers do. When you do an offline transaction and simply sign a charge slip, the retailer has to pay a small percentage of your total purchase – perhaps 2%. This fee goes to the bank that issued your debit (or credit) card as an interchange fee.
What about online transactions? Retailers can get those done for a lot less. They might only pay 10 cents or so per transaction.
What about online transactions? Retailers can get those done for a lot less. They might only pay 10 cents or so per transaction.
http://banking.about.com/od/checking...itvscredit.htm