How long to hold new cc before canceling?
May 15, 2011, 8:06 pm
#31
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 1,389
Thanks for the people who mentioned that closed cards count just as much as open cards regarding length of credit history. I'm 29 and carry a card from 1996 and 2000 as my long standing accounts that are the foundation to my length of history. I think because of this, the new cards, whether open or closed now, aren't dinging me as much as some people I know.
May 15, 2011, 8:15 pm
#32
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: AVP
Programs: gold, titanium, platinum and diamond, but still no giraffe.
Posts: 330
closed cards to count for your average age but closed accounts will drop off your report after (i think) 10 years of being closed so i wouldn't count on them as a long-term average raiser...
May 15, 2011, 8:49 pm
#33
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 226
Correct - Credit Karma is a soft pull (as is any system where you pull your own credit report, such as through the annual credit reporting system and Quizzle).
May 15, 2011, 8:50 pm
#34
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northern CA
Programs: UA, CO, AA, USAir
Posts: 25
very interesting
Learned something new from this thread today. The standard advice is always to keep your oldest credit cards open, which I assumed meant that only the open accounts count, but now I realized it means you'll still have your oldest cards show up 10 years from now. It strikes me how far-reaching the consequences of churning are, then: if you are starting churning right now, basicallly, that means you are really doing yourself a disservice if you are planning any major purchases in the relatively near future, say 3 years from now. If you have been a churner 7-8 years ago, and stopped completely 5 years ago, that really helps your score. I thought one should stop applying for new ccs 2 years before taking out a mortgage or refinancing, so that you do not have many inquiries on your report, but turns out you have to plan it like 7 years ahead to get the best deal. Of course, if you start early, new applications will not have that much weight on your history, so it's not as important. Thanks for clarifying all this!
May 16, 2011, 8:33 am
#35
In Memoriam
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Southern California
Programs: Hertz 5 star, Priceline Hotel bidder. AA PLT, 1MM.
Posts: 2,910
At least 6 months for Chase. I would keep open for 11 months. Chase tends to pull back miles if closed before 6 months. Keep the account open and if Chase denies for "too many requests or accounts with us" (don't recall exact language), call the recon # in the letter and request that some of the credit line of a open Chase card be moved to new card).
Spouse applied for 2 cards this past March & got denied for 1. Called recon # and would not reallocate credit line but would close open account & give new card its credit line. (Example: 17K line on no annual fee UA card: Offer to move 10K to new card. If unsuccessful, then offer to close UA card & open new card with its credit line).
Chase is usually one time bonus per card. (UA, CO, Hyatt, BA, etc).
For AA Citi, check the 75K AA thread. It seems that the personal can be churned every 18 months or so--YMMV. The Business maybe every 90 days. Citi don't seem to pull back miles if card is cancelled.
One thing one could do is to be an authorized user on a spouse's (or parent, child with same address) credit card. That should boast one's credit score. Works well if it is old accounts (10-20+ yrs old) with positive history (no negatives!), low utilization (low balances relative to credit line) and open. My spouse has a couple retail cards opened more than 25 yrs ago & I plan to be added as an authorized user and it should increase my "average age of credit". Before FICO 08, people would get credit score increases paying strangers with positive history & old accounts to add their name as an authorized user to their accounts. FICO 08 stopped those kind of abuses where one has now to have the same address (parent, child or spouse for example) can still benefit from the authorized user status. Maybe having a parent's address as a previous address may work. Current address works as the credit bureaus will populate your report with their history as an authorized user on their accounts.
Read the credit threads on www.creditboards.com/forums for more information about the authorized user info described above. Very interesting bulletin board.
Sorry for long writeup.
Spouse applied for 2 cards this past March & got denied for 1. Called recon # and would not reallocate credit line but would close open account & give new card its credit line. (Example: 17K line on no annual fee UA card: Offer to move 10K to new card. If unsuccessful, then offer to close UA card & open new card with its credit line).
Chase is usually one time bonus per card. (UA, CO, Hyatt, BA, etc).
For AA Citi, check the 75K AA thread. It seems that the personal can be churned every 18 months or so--YMMV. The Business maybe every 90 days. Citi don't seem to pull back miles if card is cancelled.
One thing one could do is to be an authorized user on a spouse's (or parent, child with same address) credit card. That should boast one's credit score. Works well if it is old accounts (10-20+ yrs old) with positive history (no negatives!), low utilization (low balances relative to credit line) and open. My spouse has a couple retail cards opened more than 25 yrs ago & I plan to be added as an authorized user and it should increase my "average age of credit". Before FICO 08, people would get credit score increases paying strangers with positive history & old accounts to add their name as an authorized user to their accounts. FICO 08 stopped those kind of abuses where one has now to have the same address (parent, child or spouse for example) can still benefit from the authorized user status. Maybe having a parent's address as a previous address may work. Current address works as the credit bureaus will populate your report with their history as an authorized user on their accounts.
Read the credit threads on www.creditboards.com/forums for more information about the authorized user info described above. Very interesting bulletin board.
Sorry for long writeup.
May 16, 2011, 8:36 am
#36
Join Date: Apr 2011
Programs: Delta Gold, Hilton Diamond, National Emerald Preferred, SPG Gold
Posts: 32
NooBie Question-
I have jumped on a bunch of these promotions starting with the 75K Citi a while back. I have had my Delta Amex card open since 1996 (in college) and in the last 12 months opened Citi, CO, SPG, Hilton, Cap One, BA and AMEX Hilton and Plantinum-all while having a wife scream at me as she reaped these benefits. In the meantime, I have since financed a new house and leased a car while keeping my credit score above 750 (it was over 800 a year ago).
I have no desire for any non-AMEX cards, except the Cap one card. Do you recommend I start cancelling these cards after 6 months of activity in the hopes of future churning (which I prefer) or start shelling out the annual fees to maintain my credit score? The only major financing I plan on doing in the next 7 years is a new car. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
I have jumped on a bunch of these promotions starting with the 75K Citi a while back. I have had my Delta Amex card open since 1996 (in college) and in the last 12 months opened Citi, CO, SPG, Hilton, Cap One, BA and AMEX Hilton and Plantinum-all while having a wife scream at me as she reaped these benefits. In the meantime, I have since financed a new house and leased a car while keeping my credit score above 750 (it was over 800 a year ago).
I have no desire for any non-AMEX cards, except the Cap one card. Do you recommend I start cancelling these cards after 6 months of activity in the hopes of future churning (which I prefer) or start shelling out the annual fees to maintain my credit score? The only major financing I plan on doing in the next 7 years is a new car. Any advice is greatly appreciated.
May 16, 2011, 10:40 am
#37
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 371
very nice summary.
When add an authorized user, Chase doesn't ask for authorized user's SSN. How to make sure the card will appear on the authorized user's credit report?
When add an authorized user, Chase doesn't ask for authorized user's SSN. How to make sure the card will appear on the authorized user's credit report?
At least 6 months for Chase. I would keep open for 11 months. Chase tends to pull back miles if closed before 6 months. Keep the account open and if Chase denies for "too many requests or accounts with us" (don't recall exact language), call the recon # in the letter and request that some of the credit line of a open Chase card be moved to new card).
Spouse applied for 2 cards this past March & got denied for 1. Called recon # and would not reallocate credit line but would close open account & give new card its credit line. (Example: 17K line on no annual fee UA card: Offer to move 10K to new card. If unsuccessful, then offer to close UA card & open new card with its credit line).
Chase is usually one time bonus per card. (UA, CO, Hyatt, BA, etc).
For AA Citi, check the 75K AA thread. It seems that the personal can be churned every 18 months or so--YMMV. The Business maybe every 90 days. Citi don't seem to pull back miles if card is cancelled.
One thing one could do is to be an authorized user on a spouse's (or parent, child with same address) credit card. That should boast one's credit score. Works well if it is old accounts (10-20+ yrs old) with positive history (no negatives!), low utilization (low balances relative to credit line) and open. My spouse has a couple retail cards opened more than 25 yrs ago & I plan to be added as an authorized user and it should increase my "average age of credit". Before FICO 08, people would get credit score increases paying strangers with positive history & old accounts to add their name as an authorized user to their accounts. FICO 08 stopped those kind of abuses where one has now to have the same address (parent, child or spouse for example) can still benefit from the authorized user status. Maybe having a parent's address as a previous address may work. Current address works as the credit bureaus will populate your report with their history as an authorized user on their accounts.
Read the credit threads on www.creditboards.com/forums for more information about the authorized user info described above. Very interesting bulletin board.
Sorry for long writeup.
Spouse applied for 2 cards this past March & got denied for 1. Called recon # and would not reallocate credit line but would close open account & give new card its credit line. (Example: 17K line on no annual fee UA card: Offer to move 10K to new card. If unsuccessful, then offer to close UA card & open new card with its credit line).
Chase is usually one time bonus per card. (UA, CO, Hyatt, BA, etc).
For AA Citi, check the 75K AA thread. It seems that the personal can be churned every 18 months or so--YMMV. The Business maybe every 90 days. Citi don't seem to pull back miles if card is cancelled.
One thing one could do is to be an authorized user on a spouse's (or parent, child with same address) credit card. That should boast one's credit score. Works well if it is old accounts (10-20+ yrs old) with positive history (no negatives!), low utilization (low balances relative to credit line) and open. My spouse has a couple retail cards opened more than 25 yrs ago & I plan to be added as an authorized user and it should increase my "average age of credit". Before FICO 08, people would get credit score increases paying strangers with positive history & old accounts to add their name as an authorized user to their accounts. FICO 08 stopped those kind of abuses where one has now to have the same address (parent, child or spouse for example) can still benefit from the authorized user status. Maybe having a parent's address as a previous address may work. Current address works as the credit bureaus will populate your report with their history as an authorized user on their accounts.
Read the credit threads on www.creditboards.com/forums for more information about the authorized user info described above. Very interesting bulletin board.
Sorry for long writeup.
May 16, 2011, 2:21 pm
#38
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 58
This is actually why I asked the question to begin with. I had since gotten my answer from the credit boards and directly from FICO, but it was nice to see confirmation here.
For me, who will be buying a house in the next 3-4 years... I needed to know the effect on beginning the life of the cards now. Ultimately I still think I will be okay opening a few, but I calculated that if i open 4 cards this year... how my average life would be over time.
2 cards (8 and 4), starting average of 6 years. Opening 4 cards this year means that...
1yr: ((8+4+1+1+1+1)/6) = 2.66
2yr: ((9+5+2+2+2+2)/6) = 3.66 etc etc
3yr: 4.66
4yr: 5.66
So in roughly 4 years I will have the same average age of life I have today, regardless of if I close them or keep them open.
If I only open 2, then my AAoA will go to 3.5 immediately. Thus I can see what my credit score in 2 years, if i were to open 4 cards (assuming all other variables stay the same) They won't, because I will have a higher utilization, but it still should give me an idea. This way I can actually check my score in a few months with the 2 cards open that I have, and see where everything falls.
If it dips a lot, i won't push it. I will stop opening cards now. From what I understand a 760 fico is basically the highest point that matters. Beyond that you are in the highest rate bracket anyway. I don't plan to toe that line, but I know I want to stay above it... and keep a margin
of course this all goes out the window after 10 years. But in 10 the cards i will have kept the whole time will be so old that it won't matter as much anyway.
For me, who will be buying a house in the next 3-4 years... I needed to know the effect on beginning the life of the cards now. Ultimately I still think I will be okay opening a few, but I calculated that if i open 4 cards this year... how my average life would be over time.
2 cards (8 and 4), starting average of 6 years. Opening 4 cards this year means that...
1yr: ((8+4+1+1+1+1)/6) = 2.66
2yr: ((9+5+2+2+2+2)/6) = 3.66 etc etc
3yr: 4.66
4yr: 5.66
So in roughly 4 years I will have the same average age of life I have today, regardless of if I close them or keep them open.
If I only open 2, then my AAoA will go to 3.5 immediately. Thus I can see what my credit score in 2 years, if i were to open 4 cards (assuming all other variables stay the same) They won't, because I will have a higher utilization, but it still should give me an idea. This way I can actually check my score in a few months with the 2 cards open that I have, and see where everything falls.
If it dips a lot, i won't push it. I will stop opening cards now. From what I understand a 760 fico is basically the highest point that matters. Beyond that you are in the highest rate bracket anyway. I don't plan to toe that line, but I know I want to stay above it... and keep a margin
of course this all goes out the window after 10 years. But in 10 the cards i will have kept the whole time will be so old that it won't matter as much anyway.
Learned something new from this thread today. The standard advice is always to keep your oldest credit cards open, which I assumed meant that only the open accounts count, but now I realized it means you'll still have your oldest cards show up 10 years from now. It strikes me how far-reaching the consequences of churning are, then: if you are starting churning right now, basicallly, that means you are really doing yourself a disservice if you are planning any major purchases in the relatively near future, say 3 years from now. If you have been a churner 7-8 years ago, and stopped completely 5 years ago, that really helps your score. I thought one should stop applying for new ccs 2 years before taking out a mortgage or refinancing, so that you do not have many inquiries on your report, but turns out you have to plan it like 7 years ahead to get the best deal. Of course, if you start early, new applications will not have that much weight on your history, so it's not as important. Thanks for clarifying all this!
May 17, 2011, 5:16 am
#39
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 28
Great idea - found the link on gov't sponsored website.
https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp
https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp
May 17, 2011, 8:05 am
#40
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,259
Is that once per lifetime? So if someone (*ahem like me ahem*) gets the 100K BA miles from this go around, closes account in 11 months, and Chase offers a 500K BA card 5 years from now (hey, you never know) they're out of luck?
May 17, 2011, 12:04 pm
#42
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
I found this thread very informative as I was led to believe that the average age of account balances was of only OPEN accounts. Having read that in a couple articles I found about card churning. Not denying what is being said here as I feel it is accurate but can anyone help answer why on CreditKarma (i know not the most reliable sole source of info buttt...) in the Credit Report Card section one of the categories is clearly referenced "Average Age of OPEN Credit Lines"? This is one of the factors that is being used in the CreditKarma calculation.
Thanks
Thanks
May 17, 2011, 12:57 pm
#43
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 46
I found this thread very informative as I was led to believe that the average age of account balances was of only OPEN accounts. Having read that in a couple articles I found about card churning. Not denying what is being said here as I feel it is accurate but can anyone help answer why on CreditKarma (i know not the most reliable sole source of info buttt...) in the Credit Report Card section one of the categories is clearly referenced "Average Age of OPEN Credit Lines"? This is one of the factors that is being used in the CreditKarma calculation.
Thanks
Thanks
May 23, 2011, 11:54 pm
#44
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: AVP
Programs: gold, titanium, platinum and diamond, but still no giraffe.
Posts: 330
you either pay for it when you get your free report or you sign up for a trial of a monitoring app and make sure you cancel before you get charged or you apply for a credit card and ask them what your score was once you're approved.
May 24, 2011, 4:29 am
#45
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6
The scores you get from credit monitoring services are only slightly more useful than if your neighbor assigned you a credit score. They have some value for immediately noting a change in your credit file and comparing month to month, but are NOT used by lenders. Again, if you want your EQ and TU fico scores, www.myfico.com. Experian fico scores are not available for consumer purchase.
