France-UK travel: potential warning for "settled" EU citizens
#1
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France-UK travel: potential warning for "settled" EU citizens
I was just behind an incident this evening at Paris Gare du Nord while boarding Eurostar to London. I'm piecing it together from what I was told afterwards so may have things a bit wrong but I thought worth relaying in case it makes anyone's Christmas trip easier...
Couple with son clearly having trouble getting past French border police checks under the "Motifs Imperieux" / "Compelling reasons" for departure (not arrival). AIUI, the problem was that the parents have worked in UK for ~20 years and so have post-Brexit settled status to live and work in UK, but there isn't anything in their passport to show that. Hence it's hard for police to distinguish between French traveller who wants to visit family in UK (not allowed to exit) someone with right of abode in UK (allowed to exit).
I don't know if they found a UK Home Office email during their increasingly frantic scrolling on phones, a different officer took a more lenient approach, the fact their son had a UK passport allowed them to fall into the "resident and family" tickbox, etc but may be worth thinking about if it's a journey you're making while current restrictions apply.
Couple with son clearly having trouble getting past French border police checks under the "Motifs Imperieux" / "Compelling reasons" for departure (not arrival). AIUI, the problem was that the parents have worked in UK for ~20 years and so have post-Brexit settled status to live and work in UK, but there isn't anything in their passport to show that. Hence it's hard for police to distinguish between French traveller who wants to visit family in UK (not allowed to exit) someone with right of abode in UK (allowed to exit).
I don't know if they found a UK Home Office email during their increasingly frantic scrolling on phones, a different officer took a more lenient approach, the fact their son had a UK passport allowed them to fall into the "resident and family" tickbox, etc but may be worth thinking about if it's a journey you're making while current restrictions apply.
Last edited by EsherFlyer; Dec 19, 2021 at 4:49 pm
#2
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Not being allowed to *leave* a country is absolute insanity.
#3
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#4
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#5
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You're not wrong, but that doesn't make it any less insane. Being able to leave a country (including one's own) is literally a universal human right (article 13) that is being violated here.
#6
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I considered not posting the thread as I expected it could go a bit OMNI, but don't forget Article 29.
#7
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Thank you for posting it. I was always a bit iffy as a settled citizen to not have any paper documentation proving it, and the fear now seems to be justified.
You can get a code to prove you are settled on the gov website, which I would advise you print and bring along with you. Probably won't mean much but at least it's better than nothing.
You can get a code to prove you are settled on the gov website, which I would advise you print and bring along with you. Probably won't mean much but at least it's better than nothing.
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#9
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Thank you for posting it. I was always a bit iffy as a settled citizen to not have any paper documentation proving it, and the fear now seems to be justified.
You can get a code to prove you are settled on the gov website, which I would advise you print and bring along with you. Probably won't mean much but at least it's better than nothing.
You can get a code to prove you are settled on the gov website, which I would advise you print and bring along with you. Probably won't mean much but at least it's better than nothing.
Last edited by EsherFlyer; Dec 20, 2021 at 4:50 am
#10
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I remember the old days of a stamp in your passport stating permanent right of abode. I guess nowadays, the automatic entry machine at the UK border will recognise the passport number so it's not necessary to do any more, but I wonder what happens when the passport machines or the Home Office databases go down (after all, their tech is not renowned for reliability) and no check can be made.
#11
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This has been a long-standing problem for me as a foreigner with settled status. Especially in France, where the idea of having a piece of paper is next to mandatory. I remember once having a conversation with the Gendarmes; when I told them that in the UK a utility bill was enough to prove my residence they thought I was mocking them.
#12
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This has been a long-standing problem for me as a foreigner with settled status. Especially in France, where the idea of having a piece of paper is next to mandatory. I remember once having a conversation with the Gendarmes; when I told them that in the UK a utility bill was enough to prove my residence they thought I was mocking them.
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The “violation of basic human rights” argument has thus logically been mentioned many times and in many countries, and courts all over the world have been asked to rules on such complaints. But as the op rightly mentions, there are specific provisions in national, European (ECHR) and international law that specify when curbs to those basic freedoms can be imposed, and whilst not all court cases against Covid restrictions have necessarily been unsuccessful, the immense majority has on those very grounds, including, to my knowledge, all those started on measures restricting international outbound travel. As mentioned, whether this is “right” or “wrong” belongs more to OMNI, but at any rate, the legal landscape does not give much hope to those who’d like vindication on the grounds of human rights here.
#14
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This has been a long-standing problem for me as a foreigner with settled status. Especially in France, where the idea of having a piece of paper is next to mandatory. I remember once having a conversation with the Gendarmes; when I told them that in the UK a utility bill was enough to prove my residence they thought I was mocking them.
indeed, the difficulty to prove settled status has been a long standing issue with frequently dramatic consequences for individuals in their everyday life (including in the uk itself in fact).
#15
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Can someone advise me on my situation? I am currently in France on an EU (not French) passport. Flying to London next week for a few weeks, before flying back to Australia mid-January.
Is the implication that I could be denied boarding?
Is the implication that I could be denied boarding?