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US reopened on 8 November 2021 (& subsequent entry restrictions for non-citizens)

US reopened on 8 November 2021 (& subsequent entry restrictions for non-citizens)

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Old Dec 2, 21, 7:18 pm   -   Wikipost
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Wiki Link
New thread for discussing 1-day test requirements for travellers arriving in the US by air
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/coro...departure.html

Entry ban from eight southern African countries starting on November 29, 2021

Most non-U.S. citizens who have been in South Africa, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Namibia, Lesotho, Eswatini, Mozambique or Malaw within the prior 14 days will not be allowed into the United States.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...-disease-2019/

Entry ban by air to be lifted on November 8, 2021 - All travelers should refer to CDC for travel requirements.

3 day pre-flight testing requirement will continue (US citizens/LPR not vaccinated will have to test no earlier than 1 day prior) Children under 2 years old do not need to test.

Children under 18 are exempt from vaccination requirement
Accepted vaccines will include:
  • AstraZeneca
  • BIBP/Sinopharm
  • Covishield
  • Janssen/J&J
  • Moderna
  • Pfizer-BioNTech
  • Sinovac
Vaccination certificates must come from an official source
There is a face mask mandate when flying to/from the USA, with effectively no exemptions, and including children two and above years old
Airlines need to provide some sort of contact tracing information for potential follow-up cases

Update on U.S. travel policy requiring COVID-19 vaccination
Last Updated: October 25, 2021

As announced by the White House today, the new travel policy requiring foreign nationals traveling to the United States to demonstrate proof of full vaccination against COVID-19 will take effect November 8. The CDCs website explains that, for purposes of entry into the United States, the accepted vaccines will include FDA approved or authorized and WHO Emergency Use Listing vaccines.

COVID-19 Travel Restrictions and Exceptions - U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Consular Affairs
Last updated: October 25, 2021

The presidential proclamations described on this page will no longer be in effect on November 8, 2021. For additional information, please see Safely Resuming Travel by Vaccine Requirement and Rescission of Travel Restrictions on Brazil, China, India, Iran, Ireland, the Schengen Area, South Africa, and the United Kingdom (travel.state.gov).

To protect the public health, there are four presidential proclamations that suspend entry into the United States of all noncitizens who were physically present in any of 33 countries during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States. They are Presidential Proclamation 9984 (China); Presidential Proclamation 9992 (Iran); Presidential Proclamation 10143 (Schengen Area, United Kingdom, Ireland, Brazil, and South Africa); and Presidential Proclamation 10199 (India).

What we know so far is
- Confirmed to start on 8 November
- Children under 18 are exempt from the vaccine restrictions, so the varying international standards on jab ages won't be an issue here.

- Vaccines that are OK will include Pfizer, Moderna, AZ, J&J and the two Chinese vaccines.
- Some exemptions from vaccinations are potentially allowed, notably for US citizens, though my guess is airlines will be expecting to see vaccine certificates

- 3 day pre-flight testing requirement will continue, so this needs to be a documented antigen/Lateral Flow test or PCR.
- 3 days is potentially more than 72 hours, departure on a Friday afternoon means a test on Tuesday morning or thereafter.
- NHS Lateral Flows and PCRs can't be used.
- Children over 2 years old travelling with vaccinated travellers have to be tested on the same basis (3 days).
- 1 day testing for unvaccinated USA legal residents (testing on or the day before departure), including their children.

- All passengers need to sign an attestment to confirm their negative test result and also a statement to confirm full vaccination status.
- Children who are not vaccinated do not need to get vaccinated but do need to get a "viral test" 3 to 5 days after arrival in the USA
- As a result there is a separate attestion question for unvaccinated children to confirm that the viral test is arranged.

- Vaccination certificates must come from an official source. The NHS COVID Pass app and EU DCC are specifically mentioned as acceptable.
- Vaccination is counted as two weeks from dose2, or 2 weeks after the sole dose in the case of J&J.
- Antibody certification is not a replacement for the need for vaccination, at least for non USA residents.
- 14 clear days need to elapse before travel. So if jabbed on 1 October then 15 October is when you are good to go.
- Booster vaccinations are not a factor here, they don't count towards or against the primary dose process.

- There is a face mask mandate when flying to/from the USA, with effectively no exemptions, and including children two and above years old.
- Airlines need to provide some sort of contact tracing information for potential follow-up cases.
- These restrictions do not apply at the land border.

Note that a lot of interpretation onus falls on airlines. For example there is no language requirement for vaccine certificates as far as the CDC is concerned, however you can imagine Air France may be hesitant in accepting a vaccine certificate issued in the Welsh language, to take one example.

CDC link
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2...el-System.html


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Old Jun 10, 21, 12:09 pm
  #901  
 
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Originally Posted by 13901 View Post
Oh, where to begin!

Last week Dominic Cummings did a 7-hour deposition in front of a parliamentary committee on the pandemic. It was quite explosive, here are the main remarks:
Dominic Cummings: Thousands died needlessly after Covid mistakes - BBC News

However, despite claiming (and saying to have proof) that BoJo wanted to avoid lockdowns, that Hancock lied repeatedly, that there was no plan for a pandemic and that thousands have died needlessly nothing has happened. Hankie is still at its place as minister of Health, BoJo is still PM and the public opinion has basically moved on.

Today Hancock had his turn. I haven't watched it, but here is a brief summary if you can bring yourself to watch and listen to the man;
Five things Health Secretary Matt Hancock told MPs - BBC News

Finally, there will be an inquiry, or so BoJo says, but it'll be next year. or later. Let's say at some point in 2022.
Johnson says public inquiry into Covid will begin this parliament | Coronavirus | The Guardian

I'm ready to bet dollars over doughnuts that it'll be a bit of a whitewash, a bit like it happened after Windrush when Amber Rudd was left holding the short straw and got kicked as a result. Hancock, in my opinion, will be the sacrificial lamb and that'll be about it.
I listened to the committee talking about this today and before it heard from Mr Hancock, the chairman made all aware that after Mr Cummings said he had evidence (and proof), he has supplied no evidence or proof to the committee in the timeframe he promised. Everything that fella says needs to be taken with an exceedingly large amount of salt.
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Old Jun 10, 21, 1:15 pm
  #902  
 
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Originally Posted by Owenc View Post
I wouldn’t be surprised if governments are working together to limit travel globally.
I may be in a minority here but I now think travel may not reopen until well into 2030s, perhaps 2040s, particularly to places like Japan or Australia.
This is because of delusional expectations of zero cases, zero variants before borders reopen. Following this logic, the world will never reopen, as Coronavirus becomes endemic like the flu, until hell freezes over. Just look at places like Australia, locking up entire provinces for a a few cases.

Last month I read 2 articles in the Guardian
- 100,000 people prematurely die in the UK each year due to inactivity (that is more in 2 years than died from Covid, yet we do not have anyone visiting me with a whip to make me move more,
- one million hospital admissions in the UK in a year due do obesity related diseases (my point same as above).

I do not mention even bigger causes of premature death like alcohol. It if was truly about avoiding premature deaths and protecting the NHS, it would have been long banned.

It is like protesting against aviation due to global warming effect while ignoring the fact that meat consumption (and related support industries) account for over half emotions.

The goal was to protect the NHS , save lives, so we were told, and I am sure we all supported that. Now, with many developed countries having most vulnerable vaccinated, the risk has been reduced to near 0 for the vaccinated vulnerable (at least of dying or needing hospitalization with 2 vaccines, not 0 but very close).
We cannot avoid risk in life, we all die, and I feel the threshold has been crossed in many countries to lift all restrictions. There will always be variants, not all countries will be fully vaccinated (due to vaccine hesitancy eventually rather than accessibility). We need to start treating Covid like other respiratory illness, at least in places with high vaccination rates. Otherwise this will never end.
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Old Jun 10, 21, 1:19 pm
  #903  
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Originally Posted by DL77 View Post
There are very specific reasons behind the request for reciprocity from the United States and not from others. Some large European countries, such as France, Italy and Spain have huge commercial interests with the US, as well as strong family ties linked to past immigration. Having reciprocity from Korea, Australia and New Zealand is of no interest to anyone. Having opened up to American tourism, European politicians are now subjected to strong pressure from public opinion and from the business world. I work in France and live in Italy, I know the French well. At the moment the politics is trying to mediate and moves the calendar for reciprocity to 06/30 ... honestly, and as I know France, I don't think they will be able to mediate beyond 06/30 without risking a loss of consensus and loss support of the business world. I also foresee strong divisions at the European level on this issue.

While all those reasons may be true, singling out the US, or appearing to single out the US for reciprocity isn't going to help their cause.

They should demand reciprocity from everyone or no-one.
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Old Jun 10, 21, 1:40 pm
  #904  
 
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The working group is clearly a tactic to kick the can further down the road. Both the UK and the US Government have stated, in slightly different ways, that they want international travel to be suppressed for the time being. The UK government does this by insisting on expensive tests and quarantine at home. The US Government does it by making visitors risk contracting COVID by having to spend 14 days in a high risk country - but then not bother with quarantine or testing on arrival. You can pull all these measures apart, but they do both work in reducing the level of travel.

Until public opinion requires the US and the UK to allow more travel, it's difficult to see why either government will lift a finger.

So September seems the most likely date, still.
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Old Jun 10, 21, 1:57 pm
  #905  
 
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Originally Posted by alex67500 View Post
It's unlikely that the Biden administration will be swayed by this,
They won't be. The views of other countries on this matter carry no weight the administration. They won't say that out loud, of course.

Originally Posted by joebeee View Post
Hmm interesting. Do you think the Biden administration will just ignore their request? When do you think EU to US travel will be possible?
Yes, they will ignore it. They'll come out with some diplomatic sounding language, but the result will be the same.

Originally Posted by alex67500 View Post
I think the Biden admin is thinking more about what things look like at home, rather than trying to please Europeans. I don't know about when, but he certainly doesn't appear to be in a rush. Vaccinated Americans can move about now, so it's really not a problem for him. If Europeans wanted reciprocity they should have asked for it before opening up.
If I had to pick a timeframe, I'd say sometime between July 4th & September. Agree with you on the rest. Although, had the EU asked for reciprocity before opening, the answer would've been, "No."

Originally Posted by Owenc View Post
So why should we please Americans? I agree with the others.

If he doesnt remove the ban in the next few weeks, bring back the ban on all Americans, including from the U.K. No quarantine or anything. Full ban.

If theyre not going to treat the European nations with respect and are essentially laughing at us, European nations can throw the same back in their face. Because that is what theyre doing, they know a lot of Europeans are desperate to get to America and as a government they dont care about the repercussions of this ban. They know Europe prefers tourists but arent prepared to be compromise on it.
This strategy only works if the target cares about the consequences, which the Biden administration doesn't (at least for the moment).
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Old Jun 10, 21, 2:37 pm
  #906  
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Well, I do think that Merkel (the leader of the strongest economy in Europe) is quiet happy with the current setup. She is more on the cautious side doesn't want German residents to travel oversea's. I wouldn't be surprised if she told Biden multiple times that Biden should keep the Schengen travel ban active.
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Old Jun 10, 21, 2:48 pm
  #907  
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Originally Posted by warakorn View Post
Well, I do think that Merkel (the leader of the strongest economy in Europe) is quiet happy with the current setup. She is more on the cautious side doesn't want German residents to travel oversea's. I wouldn't be surprised if she told Biden multiple times that Biden should keep the Schengen travel ban active.
It's hard to imagine Germans supporting such a position considering how many Germans I saw (everywhere) during my pre-covid int'l travel.
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Old Jun 10, 21, 2:59 pm
  #908  
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Germans are going to be able to travel to Italy, Spain, etc. all the warm weather places they go to in the summers.

Germany will open up to other EU tourists. It's still a question of whether they will open up to non-EU people.

But what happens if Americans go to France and then train or drive across the border?
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Old Jun 10, 21, 4:01 pm
  #909  
 
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Originally Posted by jddbz View Post
The number #1 work rule is not "work as little as possible" so much as "don't do anything unusual which might go wrong which you may be held responsible for". I share this because at this stage the complete paralysis, with no reaction to vaccination programs or science, that seems to have set in over the opening of borders is all eerily familiar. Its the same mindset in action - don't rock the boat, don't take even the tiniest of risks. Decision by committee, as slowly and timidly as humanly possible.
And, combined with LETTERBOY's accurately pointing out that most Americans, for whatever reason, just don't care about traveling abroad. So, it makes perfect sense for both politicians and gov't bureaucrats to simply play it safe. You can just see all those "meetings about the meeting" just to give the impression that they're working diligently on accomplishing something. By keeping the ban, if there's another waive, they'll just say things would have been far worse if they didn't insist on the restrictions; and, conversely, if things improved, they can cite that it wouldn't have been the case had they not continued the restrictions. Win/win for them, but a lost for the rest of us who have business interests and/or family abroad.

Originally Posted by jddbz View Post
Its incredibly frustrating, really.
It is. Because they're being overly cautious and fail to consider or account for the many positives to health that a fully vibrant global economy and travel have contributed to during my lifetime.
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Old Jun 10, 21, 4:13 pm
  #910  
 
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Originally Posted by exp View Post
While all those reasons may be true, singling out the US, or appearing to single out the US for reciprocity isn't going to help their cause.

They should demand reciprocity from everyone or no-one.
America is a massive continent sized country, it cant be expected to be treated the same as most other countries.
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Old Jun 10, 21, 4:16 pm
  #911  
 
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Originally Posted by Visconti View Post
And, combined with LETTERBOY's accurately pointing out that most Americans, for whatever reason, just don't care about traveling abroad. So, it makes perfect sense for both politicians and gov't bureaucrats to simply play it safe. You can just see all those "meetings about the meeting" just to give the impression that they're working diligently on accomplishing something. By keeping the ban, if there's another waive, they'll just say things would have been far worse if they didn't insist on the restrictions; and, conversely, if things improved, they can cite that it wouldn't have been the case had they not continued the restrictions. Win/win for them, but a lost for the rest of us who have business interests and/or family abroad.
I have never had any respect for European political institutions, I must say that in this particular situation they seem to me to be giants of humanity, education and respect when compared to the disgusting behavior of the American administration.
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Old Jun 10, 21, 4:16 pm
  #912  
 
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Originally Posted by TBD View Post
Willie Walsh was on an Economist podcast yesterday. He thinks this is no longer a health concern, but a political concern. Governments are afraid of the fallout if they open up and cases surge. Keeping restrictions in place also show the public that they're taking this seriously / taking action.
This!

The simple fact is that all around the world, the governments that took the strongest action, introducing harsh lockdowns, violating human rights, with the aim of "crushing covid," were lauded and praised. While Sweden's government, which kept the society mostly open, and which kept the borders open for untested tourists from within the EU, was fiercely criticized. The result is that we have governments that are super afraid of being perceived as too lax. Biden, Johnson and all the others are simply afraid of causing a rush of new cases by opening up society and the borders. The reason we are in this quandary is because incompetent governments never made any plans for opening up again before they locked down.

That's why any new variant -- or any new virus -- will be used as an excuse for a continued lockdown or continued closed borders. Covid-22, virusvid-24, pandemicvid-27, epidemicvid-31, fluvid-33, etc. etc. The mistaken notion that it's possible to "crush covid" is destroying the world.

I've realized that if the borders will ever be opened for tourism again, they won't stay open for long.
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Old Jun 10, 21, 4:29 pm
  #913  
 
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Originally Posted by Owenc View Post
America is a massive continent sized country, it can’t be expected to be treated the same as most other countries.
America is the most powerful country in the world (politically, economically, and militarily). You can't exactly push them around in the manner you apparently want to, either. This holds true regardless of which party is in power, or whichever individual occupies the White House. Sooner or later, Europe will need something from America (whatever it is). If you alienate them over something like this now, you will have a much harder time getting whatever it is you're asking for later.

You can, of course, say the same thing in the other direction, but given the USA's size and power there will always be an imbalance of power in this regard. That's just the way it is.

Last edited by LETTERBOY; Jun 10, 21 at 6:21 pm Reason: typo
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Old Jun 10, 21, 4:49 pm
  #914  
 
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So why is Biden over here then if they dont need support?
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Old Jun 10, 21, 4:53 pm
  #915  
 
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The status quo keeps EU money in the EU and brings American money to the EU, as well. The VIP's will continue to travel wherever, whenever they please. Reciprocity is nice, but from a fiscal standpoint, the powers that be in the EU has little reason to throw a hissy fit over it. We can whine all we want about fairness and equality, but none of that really matters in the real world.
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