Best place to spend winter during a potential second wave of COVID?
Feb 7, 2021, 10:31 am
#886
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I had a business trip to Washington DC recently. The train from NYC had about 75 people onboard so everyone was spaced out. Some people didn't bother with masks as they were eating and drinking.
The citizens of DC have enjoyed indoor dining since June 2020 and again I had a great meal at Morton's. The restaurant was completely full, but people aren't allowed to stand at the bar so it wasn't too bad in the social distance department. Less mask wearing than NYC, yet masks are expected until you sit down at a table. That said, a lot of people never bothered to put the mask on when they got up to leave. Alcohol may have been involved.
It was only on the way back to the train station that I noticed the military encampment near the Capitol. That area looks like it could be Iraq. However no problems with getting to Union station to catch a train. So to wrap this up, I would say Washington DC would be a great place to spend COVID. It has not been crowded at all as there are few tourists and lobbyists on the street. Thus it is a quite livable city.
The citizens of DC have enjoyed indoor dining since June 2020 and again I had a great meal at Morton's. The restaurant was completely full, but people aren't allowed to stand at the bar so it wasn't too bad in the social distance department. Less mask wearing than NYC, yet masks are expected until you sit down at a table. That said, a lot of people never bothered to put the mask on when they got up to leave. Alcohol may have been involved.
It was only on the way back to the train station that I noticed the military encampment near the Capitol. That area looks like it could be Iraq. However no problems with getting to Union station to catch a train. So to wrap this up, I would say Washington DC would be a great place to spend COVID. It has not been crowded at all as there are few tourists and lobbyists on the street. Thus it is a quite livable city.
Feb 8, 2021, 4:44 am
#887
Join Date: May 2011
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Winter will be over in a month and a a half or so, and the vaccine rollout is improving. I would bet by April, the landscape in terms of restrictions will be changing rapidly and dramatically, especially in the US. Masks will still be a thing, but dining, museums, even things like live entertainment will start to open up. I would start adding many major US cities to this consideration as we round the counter in March and April...
Feb 8, 2021, 6:59 am
#888
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Posts: 34,339
Winter will be over in a month and a a half or so, and the vaccine rollout is improving. I would bet by April, the landscape in terms of restrictions will be changing rapidly and dramatically, especially in the US. Masks will still be a thing, but dining, museums, even things like live entertainment will start to open up. I would start adding many major US cities to this consideration as we round the counter in March and April...
Feb 16, 2021, 11:10 am
#889
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The way things are going this chat might end up about where to spend the summer.
Feb 16, 2021, 2:58 pm
#892
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Don’t bet on it.
Feb 28, 2021, 1:27 pm
#893
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I was actually joking about that but I've just taken early retirement so where to spend the summer actually is a question now. Strange how these little remarks sometimes come true.
Mar 2, 2021, 4:16 am
#894
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I'm actually considering London for approximately two months in the summer.
With the meteorological winter over in Sweden, I can now conclude it was a great choice for the winter and I can't think of any better place to spend it. Safe, civilised and probably more free than any other place in the world. The only noteworthy restriction was closure of restaurants after 20:30 (which ironically led to more crowding, but that's another topic), otherwise it felt very normal. No masks, no hysteria, just reasonable general precautions.
That being said, I'm starting to considering next. Going back home (Slovakia) will not be an option for a while, as the place has the highest new deaths rate per capita in the world and the government has no clue what to do, thus restrictions are here to stay for a few more months.
Staying in Sweden looks like the best option at the moment, but the government is under a political pressure to do something. The good news is that they seem to be determined to not really do anything and only introduce rather pointless measures, but it still makes situation a bit more chaotic, with lots of new rules being outright absurd. I'm worried that Sweden is now going in the wrong direction and that the less organised approach will lead to a higher spread of the infection and thus to even more restrictions. Masks are also gaining some traction, which is a logical consequence of the government suggesting it may be a good way to reduce the spread - I still don't feel pressured to wear them anywhere, but quite a few people wear them now on a public transportation. What's worse, even one of my favourite restaurant made their staff wear masks so I sadly won't be visiting it anymore (but it's an international chain, so maybe it's unrelated to the development in Sweden) - luckily most restaurants remain mask-free. And finally, for tax reasons, I want to leave by the end of July no matter what (unless I decide to settle here permanently, which is something I'm still considering).
Thus I'm looking for another place to spend the summer. UK seems to be the only European country going for reopening. The big question for me is how stable the plan is and what happens with masks (reopening scheme doesn't mention them). Since I have a few friends in London, that would be a good choice for me if it fully reopens, if there are no masks and if I consider the situation stable enough, with knee-jerk reactions very unlikely.
I'm also looking at countries that either never went full crazy (NL for example) or where there's a lot of public resistance (e.g. Czechia, which also has an election in the autumn so the push for reopening will be strong).
Any ideas for other places? Should be in Europe or at least having a ferry from Europe. I know Balkans are fairly chill, but I would like something more civilised (don't get me wrong, I like to visit those countries, but few days are the most I can take at a time).
With the meteorological winter over in Sweden, I can now conclude it was a great choice for the winter and I can't think of any better place to spend it. Safe, civilised and probably more free than any other place in the world. The only noteworthy restriction was closure of restaurants after 20:30 (which ironically led to more crowding, but that's another topic), otherwise it felt very normal. No masks, no hysteria, just reasonable general precautions.
That being said, I'm starting to considering next. Going back home (Slovakia) will not be an option for a while, as the place has the highest new deaths rate per capita in the world and the government has no clue what to do, thus restrictions are here to stay for a few more months.
Staying in Sweden looks like the best option at the moment, but the government is under a political pressure to do something. The good news is that they seem to be determined to not really do anything and only introduce rather pointless measures, but it still makes situation a bit more chaotic, with lots of new rules being outright absurd. I'm worried that Sweden is now going in the wrong direction and that the less organised approach will lead to a higher spread of the infection and thus to even more restrictions. Masks are also gaining some traction, which is a logical consequence of the government suggesting it may be a good way to reduce the spread - I still don't feel pressured to wear them anywhere, but quite a few people wear them now on a public transportation. What's worse, even one of my favourite restaurant made their staff wear masks so I sadly won't be visiting it anymore (but it's an international chain, so maybe it's unrelated to the development in Sweden) - luckily most restaurants remain mask-free. And finally, for tax reasons, I want to leave by the end of July no matter what (unless I decide to settle here permanently, which is something I'm still considering).
Thus I'm looking for another place to spend the summer. UK seems to be the only European country going for reopening. The big question for me is how stable the plan is and what happens with masks (reopening scheme doesn't mention them). Since I have a few friends in London, that would be a good choice for me if it fully reopens, if there are no masks and if I consider the situation stable enough, with knee-jerk reactions very unlikely.
I'm also looking at countries that either never went full crazy (NL for example) or where there's a lot of public resistance (e.g. Czechia, which also has an election in the autumn so the push for reopening will be strong).
Any ideas for other places? Should be in Europe or at least having a ferry from Europe. I know Balkans are fairly chill, but I would like something more civilised (don't get me wrong, I like to visit those countries, but few days are the most I can take at a time
).
Mar 2, 2021, 4:23 am
#895
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Kent, UK
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Greece? Not now, but may be a good option by summer time. Good food at least.
Mar 2, 2021, 5:10 am
#896
Join Date: Apr 2010
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That's an interesting idea, I have considered that the last summer. The upside is that it's warm so almost everything can be done outside and thus with very few restrictions. I guess it will depend on prices, if I can get a good deal on a nice accomodation, it could work.
Last edited by NWIFlyer; Mar 2, 2021 at 5:39 am Reason: Remove reference to post deleted by the mod team
Mar 2, 2021, 5:23 am
#897
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Kent, UK
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That's an interesting idea, I have considered that the last summer. The upside is that it's warm so almost everything can be done outside and thus with very few restrictions. I guess it will depend on prices, if I can get a good deal on a nice accomodation, it could work.
Belarus is possible. Not much COVID there and very few deaths by European standards. Their nutty president thought vodka was the solution to COVID. Maybe he was right in the end
I am told they have the best vodka there FWIW.Another possibility - Turkey. Similar advantages to Greece.
Last edited by NWIFlyer; Mar 2, 2021 at 5:39 am Reason: Align quote
Mar 2, 2021, 5:32 am
#898
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That or the numbers are wrong, which is the most likely. There are multiple reports of numbers fraud and manipulation in Belarus. Do not forget that COVID19 transmission as a form of torture is used in Belarus prison.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-...mic_in_Belarus
On 13 May, 2020, NEXTA reported a total of 27,717 COVID-19 cases and a daily gain of 1,369.[62][63]
According to the statistics presented during the 22 May 2020 webinar of the Belarusian Society of Anesthesiologists and Reanimatologists, in April, 2020, mortality rate among intensive therapy COVID-19 patients in Minsk alone accounted to 27%, or 117 patients in absolute numbers, contradictory to the 1 May official Ministry of Health report pointing to a total (i.e. in Belarus as a whole) of 93 deaths of COVID-19 patients. In a further official clarification by the Ministry of Health, it was noted that the death rate presented during the webinar reflected the data on all the patients of "pulmonological profile" and included both confirmed COVID-19 patients and patients with "other pneumonia etiologies", contradictory to the slides of the webinar presentation mentioning the COVID-19 patients exclusively. The recording of the webinar was subsequently removed from YouTube.[64][65]
According to intensive care unit personnel of the 1st Minsk Clinical Hospital, 3-4 deaths of likely coronavirus-positive patients were registered there on some days, while the official daily deaths statistics for these days did not exceed 5 deaths for Belarus as a whole.[66]
According to the 22 July 2020 remark by Lidia Yermoshina (with reference to the Ministry of Health data), as of date, around 41,000 people were either hospitalized or undergoing ambulatory COVID-19 treatment, or were in the status of first-level contact, contrary to the official statistics pointing to a total of 6,947 active cases. In a further clarification by the Ministry of Health, it was noted that the named number represented the number of people under "all types of medical observation", including active COVID-19 cases, first- and second-level contacts and the currently quarantined individuals. According to the Ministry of Health's own guidelines, however, the second-level contacts were exempt from the self-quarantine requirement and were not a subject to observation.[67]
Statistical analysis of the official Belarusian COVID-19 daily infection numbers suggested the presence of an artificial limit of 1,000 cases per day.[68]
According to the United Nations Statistics Division (UNSD) data[69] on monthly deaths in Belarus, in April–June 2020, the total number of deaths exceeded the average figure for the last 5 years by about 5,500, while the average figure for the January–April period did not show a notable difference with the previous years. According to Nasha Niva, such statistical anomalies have never been observed since the beginning of the UNSD operation in 1980 and could point to the actual COVID-19 deaths statistics in Belarus.[70]
In a 7 September 2020 interview to Dozhd, Alexander Mrochek, cardiologist and academician of the Belarusian Academy of Sciences, suggested that COVID-19 deaths in Belarus were presented as deaths from cardiovascular diseases in the official mortality statistics: "Cardiovascular diseases comprise 58% of the mortality statistics in Belarus, significantly exceeding such rates in the neighbouring countries. My suggestion, and I have certain facts supporting it, [...] is that the arteriosclerotic heart disease diagnosis [was written in a death certificate], with no regards to a patient dying from respiratory failure caused by the COVID-19 infection". According to Mrochek, Vladimir Karanik, the former minister of health, was personally responsible for the falsification.[71]
On 9 November, 2020, in an interview to BelTA, it was noted by Igor Petrhishenko, Deputy Prime Minister of Belarus, that, according to preliminary data, 15-20% of the Belarusian population possessed herd immunity to COVID-19, contradictory to the official 9 November Ministry of Health report pointing to a total of 108,000 confirmed cases.[72]
According to the mortality statistics published by the Mogilev civil registry, in January-November, 2020, the total number of deaths for the given time period (4,375) exceeded the total number of deaths for whole previous year by 609, while the Mogilev mortality statistics for the previous 5 years lacked similar death spikes and stayed at a mark of approximately 3,800 people. The statistics also showed that in November, 2020, there were almost twice as many deaths in Mogilev than in November, 2019. The statistics was subsequently removed from the registry's website.[73][74]
According to the statistics presented during the 22 May 2020 webinar of the Belarusian Society of Anesthesiologists and Reanimatologists, in April, 2020, mortality rate among intensive therapy COVID-19 patients in Minsk alone accounted to 27%, or 117 patients in absolute numbers, contradictory to the 1 May official Ministry of Health report pointing to a total (i.e. in Belarus as a whole) of 93 deaths of COVID-19 patients. In a further official clarification by the Ministry of Health, it was noted that the death rate presented during the webinar reflected the data on all the patients of "pulmonological profile" and included both confirmed COVID-19 patients and patients with "other pneumonia etiologies", contradictory to the slides of the webinar presentation mentioning the COVID-19 patients exclusively. The recording of the webinar was subsequently removed from YouTube.[64][65]
According to intensive care unit personnel of the 1st Minsk Clinical Hospital, 3-4 deaths of likely coronavirus-positive patients were registered there on some days, while the official daily deaths statistics for these days did not exceed 5 deaths for Belarus as a whole.[66]
According to the 22 July 2020 remark by Lidia Yermoshina (with reference to the Ministry of Health data), as of date, around 41,000 people were either hospitalized or undergoing ambulatory COVID-19 treatment, or were in the status of first-level contact, contrary to the official statistics pointing to a total of 6,947 active cases. In a further clarification by the Ministry of Health, it was noted that the named number represented the number of people under "all types of medical observation", including active COVID-19 cases, first- and second-level contacts and the currently quarantined individuals. According to the Ministry of Health's own guidelines, however, the second-level contacts were exempt from the self-quarantine requirement and were not a subject to observation.[67]
Statistical analysis of the official Belarusian COVID-19 daily infection numbers suggested the presence of an artificial limit of 1,000 cases per day.[68]
According to the United Nations Statistics Division (UNSD) data[69] on monthly deaths in Belarus, in April–June 2020, the total number of deaths exceeded the average figure for the last 5 years by about 5,500, while the average figure for the January–April period did not show a notable difference with the previous years. According to Nasha Niva, such statistical anomalies have never been observed since the beginning of the UNSD operation in 1980 and could point to the actual COVID-19 deaths statistics in Belarus.[70]
In a 7 September 2020 interview to Dozhd, Alexander Mrochek, cardiologist and academician of the Belarusian Academy of Sciences, suggested that COVID-19 deaths in Belarus were presented as deaths from cardiovascular diseases in the official mortality statistics: "Cardiovascular diseases comprise 58% of the mortality statistics in Belarus, significantly exceeding such rates in the neighbouring countries. My suggestion, and I have certain facts supporting it, [...] is that the arteriosclerotic heart disease diagnosis [was written in a death certificate], with no regards to a patient dying from respiratory failure caused by the COVID-19 infection". According to Mrochek, Vladimir Karanik, the former minister of health, was personally responsible for the falsification.[71]
On 9 November, 2020, in an interview to BelTA, it was noted by Igor Petrhishenko, Deputy Prime Minister of Belarus, that, according to preliminary data, 15-20% of the Belarusian population possessed herd immunity to COVID-19, contradictory to the official 9 November Ministry of Health report pointing to a total of 108,000 confirmed cases.[72]
According to the mortality statistics published by the Mogilev civil registry, in January-November, 2020, the total number of deaths for the given time period (4,375) exceeded the total number of deaths for whole previous year by 609, while the Mogilev mortality statistics for the previous 5 years lacked similar death spikes and stayed at a mark of approximately 3,800 people. The statistics also showed that in November, 2020, there were almost twice as many deaths in Mogilev than in November, 2019. The statistics was subsequently removed from the registry's website.[73][74]
Last edited by NWIFlyer; Mar 2, 2021 at 5:40 am Reason: Remove personal comment to comply with rule 12
Mar 2, 2021, 5:34 am
#899
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Florida? There is an expectation in parts of Florida that parts of Florida will be having more visitors for "spring break" this year than was the case typically pre-pandemic. And there are lots of people in Florida in the mix of people who don't take Covid-19 seriously and treat Covid-19-related recommendations and restrictions in that kind of way. So in parts it may feel like it sort of does in Sweden but with a sun and temperature difference and even way more crowds for partying. Both Florida and Sweden have gotten hit quite hard by Covid-19 during this pandemic but both places' populations are still far short of herd immunity, so keep that in mind. And the US is open to most EUropeans if they are willing to do a 14 day stay in say Mexico prior to flying to the US and can present a negative Covid-19 test.
Mar 2, 2021, 5:43 am
#900
Join Date: Apr 2010
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The downside of Florida is that it requires a flight (multiple flights actually) and it seems masks are required on some limited occasions, although not too many. It is on my list as the last resort, if Sweden indeed goes downhill and if there is no European alternative. If I had/wanted to leave Sweden right now, Florida would be the place to go.
Thanks for the tip!
Thanks for the tip!