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Best place to spend winter during a potential second wave of COVID?

Best place to spend winter during a potential second wave of COVID?

Old Nov 11, 20, 4:50 pm
  #676  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
There is no national will in Sweden to become a libertarian utopia/dystopia and marching back toward a Hobbesian state of nature open to one and all to do anything and everything with no/almost no restrictions just to feel good about increasing compliance.
It's not about "feeling good", it's about achieving results. Sure, bring regulations in where they can be effective. For example, banning large events makes sense and I absolutely support it. But limiting hours in bars is a very dubious solution, as there are way too many workarounds for those who want to keep socialising. Government is using its precious capital on something that will most likely have only a negligible effect. It seems to me as an act of desperation, rather than a meaningful effort.

Government officials admit too many people ignore guidelines these days (and my experience is sadly the same). There's no point throwing more regulations in before government manages to get these people on board.

I always percieved Swedish authorities as ones that understand the need to take the human/psychological element into account, which is why I find this move somewhat surprising.
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Last edited by the810; Nov 11, 20 at 4:57 pm
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Old Nov 11, 20, 5:09 pm
  #677  
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I've never understood bars closing early. If you have social distancing regulations in place then I would have thought it doesn't matter what time the bars close.
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Old Nov 11, 20, 5:58 pm
  #678  
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Originally Posted by bensyd View Post
I've never understood bars closing early. If you have social distancing regulations in place then I would have thought it doesn't matter what time the bars close.
Good point. I have yet to see any bars anywhere that impose appropriate social distancing or masking requirements (the latter is clearly incompatible with the nature of drinking and socializing at bars). The better policy is to close all indoor bars as it appears there is no will to enforce distancing and masking.

There was an interesting media report featuring individuals who decided to ride out the pandemic in various locations (Mexico, Costa Rica etc.) and just about all of them ended up bored and ready to return "home" if the could. Perhaps the grass is not greener...
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Old Nov 11, 20, 6:03 pm
  #679  
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Originally Posted by Boraxo View Post
Good point. I have yet to see any bars anywhere that impose appropriate social distancing or masking requirements (the latter is clearly incompatible with the nature of drinking and socializing at bars). The better policy is to close all indoor bars as it appears there is no will to enforce distancing and masking.
Social distancing is being pretty strictly enforced in pubs and restaurants here. Breaches carry a $5k fine for each instance and my mate who manages a pub says licensing police are coming through 2-3x/week to check compliance. Still there are some places that are very strict and some that are far less.

The upside is that it stops unwanted bar flies coming over and talking to you.
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Old Nov 12, 20, 1:20 am
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Originally Posted by bensyd View Post
I've never understood bars closing early. If you have social distancing regulations in place then I would have thought it doesn't matter what time the bars close.
Interestingly, the Swedish Public Health Agency actually confirmed recently that restaurants are not a major source of the infection thanks to distancing and other rules implemented there. That's why their advice to avoid crowded indoor premises doesn't extend to restaurants (and bars, which are the same category).

This discrepancy between health authorities saying restaurants are not a problem vs government limiting hours in restaurants is another reason why I believe politicans sidetracked experts with this decission.
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Old Nov 12, 20, 2:07 am
  #681  
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Swedish Public Health Agency should not be taken seriously with their conclusions: they reach conclusions that they are the only one to reach, contrary to most other health agency around the world and researchers (including Swedish researchers), most notably with children spreading, restaurants and distancing.

For example here is what Norway Public Health Authority published about "most likely jobs to get COVID" based on contact tracing (that Sweden does not do, so have no data). Waiter and bartender are at the tops:



https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...ierce-backlash
https://amp.ft.com/content/1e0ac31d-...mpression=true
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Old Nov 12, 20, 2:54 am
  #682  
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Originally Posted by Boraxo View Post
There was an interesting media report featuring individuals who decided to ride out the pandemic in various locations (Mexico, Costa Rica etc.) and just about all of them ended up bored and ready to return "home" if the could. Perhaps the grass is not greener...
Wow I am completely different from those folks. It takes a type of mentality to enjoy life in other countries and cultures. I would think that most Flyertalkers know and have this.
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Old Nov 12, 20, 4:03 am
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Originally Posted by Expat_flyer1 View Post
I just got out of quarantine in Shanghai and life seems ... normal here ?
Well kinda the same in Singapore. With conditions that you must wear a mask and a Bluetooth token everywhere once you leave your house.
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Old Nov 12, 20, 5:04 am
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Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
Wow I am completely different from those folks. It takes a type of mentality to enjoy life in other countries and cultures. I would think that most Flyertalkers know and have this.
Most Flyertalkers love to travel and enjoy visiting other countries.
Thats different from changing your primary residence. If I had no good reason to spend the entire winter 2019-2020 in Mexico, there is no good reason to spend the entire winter 2020-2021 in Mexico.
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Old Nov 12, 20, 6:39 am
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I see that QR is resuming flights to several destinations, including MIA, ORD, JFK, SFO and HKT! If I were stuck in the US I certainly would love to fly to HKT and would not mind at all a 14 day quarantine in a luxury beach resort. QR is also resuming flights to SEZ but staying there would likely be much more costly.

And for those who worry about health care, Thailand is not one of the places you'd fear for good affordable health care.

Last edited by stimpy; Nov 12, 20 at 6:45 am
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Old Nov 12, 20, 7:03 am
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Originally Posted by stimpy View Post
I see that QR is resuming flights to several destinations, including MIA, ORD, JFK, SFO and HKT! If I were stuck in the US I certainly would love to fly to HKT and would not mind at all a 14 day quarantine in a luxury beach resort. QR is also resuming flights to SEZ but staying there would likely be much more costly.

And for those who worry about health care, Thailand is not one of the places you'd fear for good affordable health care.
Sadly, Thailand is still closed to all Western tourists.
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Old Nov 12, 20, 8:13 am
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Originally Posted by Sjoerd View Post
Sadly, Thailand is still closed to all Western tourists.
I read that Phuket opened yesterday. Is that wrong? Also I should have said QR's first flight to HKT is scheduled for Dec 4th. Maybe it will be well open by then.
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Old Nov 12, 20, 8:54 am
  #688  
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Bali is looking to open up. I am still waiting to hear from my contact who is associated with its governor to find out more about that.

[redacted quote of post since deleted by mod team]

A few facts about Sweden for those who don’t know this place intimately:

1) Most alcohol-loving Swedes start drinking earlier and in private as a matter of routine before going out (if at all) to get multiple (if any) drinks at bars/clubs; and it is done as a matter of cost control and maximizing socialization in more intimate (but not necessarily smaller, more distanced) groups than when going out to bars/clubs. This is very unlikely to change for visitors this winter just because of restrictions on parties with alcohol service licenses.

2) More strict controls of social distancing at bars/clubs during traditional peak alcohol service times will overwhelm the police (more so than usual on party nights) as the Swedish ordinance control people involved in enforcement (or whatever) against patrons will then be dragging the police (proper) more often into the situation if the involved parties really desire to go full force on enforcement on this. And don’t be surprised if this involves discrimination where foreigners/visitors to the alcohol-serving-places end up in the back of the police Volvo more often than the ethnically native Swede even when engaged in the very same behavior as the locals.

Sweden already had a period in places where bars went to seated service only for bar patrons. Often flouted and sometimes “enforced” in ththe very manner suggested in my prior paragraph.

Originally Posted by fransknorge View Post
Swedish Public Health Agency should not be taken seriously with their conclusions: they reach conclusions that they are the only one to reach, contrary to most other health agency around the world and researchers (including Swedish researchers), most notably with children spreading, restaurants and distancing.

For example here is what Norway Public Health Authority published about "most likely jobs to get COVID" based on contact tracing (that Sweden does not do, so have no data). Waiter and bartender are at the tops:



https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...ierce-backlash
https://amp.ft.com/content/1e0ac31d-...mpression=true
Yes. And keep in mind that the Swedish health authorities have been (and still remain) opposed to the general public using masks as a public health security measure and even suggested that mask use by the general public is a public health danger. That’s sign enough for visitors to not have blind confidence in the Swedish health authorities making Sweden safe for visitors or even its own citizens and other residents when it comes to Covid-19 this winter.
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Last edited by NewbieRunner; Nov 14, 20 at 1:48 am
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Old Nov 12, 20, 5:28 pm
  #689  
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Originally Posted by invisible View Post
Well kinda the same in Singapore. With conditions that you must wear a mask and a Bluetooth token everywhere once you leave your house.
Wearing a mask is being considerate to others ( especially to those around you ) . Actually , it is extremely uncomfortable for me though it does not seem to bother most everyone else ..
Some love to download the “ Trace App “ , others rather not & just bring along the token if theirs has been issued . Supposedly everyone in Singapore must have at least one or the other by January .

No community spread ( or barely any on other days ) , both in HK & Singapore , just imported cases from the usual suspect countries .

Hope the Hong Kong Singapore air travel bubble from 22 November is a success ! One has to bear with the protocol - applications to fly , few “ swabbings “ , masks inflight but just to fly again - incentive enough for FTers . Why we are on FlyerTalk anyway !!

Waiting patiently for New Zealand to open up , along with Thailand and Vietnam .
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Last edited by FlyerEC; Nov 12, 20 at 5:38 pm
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Old Nov 13, 20, 7:06 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
And keep in mind that the Swedish health authorities have been (and still remain) opposed to the general public using masks as a public health security measure and even suggested that mask use by the general public is a public health danger. Thats sign enough for visitors to not have blind confidence in the Swedish health authorities making Sweden safe for visitors or even its own citizens and other residents when it comes to Covid-19 this winter.
The fact that Swedish authorities base their decissions on facts and logic rather istead of virtue signalling is the very reason why I prefer to be in Sweden at this time and I feel reasonably safe here - much more than back at home where government fires one random meassure after another, without any concept or results (and in the end, everyone ends up doing whatever they want as obviously no one trusts a government that acts like that).
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