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Best place to spend winter during a potential second wave of COVID?

Best place to spend winter during a potential second wave of COVID?

 
Old Oct 27, 2020, 10:54 am
  #586  
 
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Originally Posted by The_Bouncer
This is true, but most people in Europe at least still have the freedom to leave their country of residence - although I believe Wales has now followed Australia and North Korea in effectively banning its people from leaving.
That is not true: people can enter, leave and travel within Wales for a large number of permitted reasons, including travelling to work. There is no blanket ban on leaving the country, and even if there were it would be impossible to police a 250-kilometre long land border.
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Old Oct 27, 2020, 11:27 am
  #587  
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For me the current safety measures and top notch medical care are far more critical than the historical infection rate. I'd rather spend the winter in a place like Japan or Malta (reported above to have the populace complying with safety measures) than Spain, Italy, France where the resumption of the cafe and bar culture is apparently more important than preventing a second wave. For US residents, the options are more limited, but Hawaii sounds like a good choice (provided its hospitals aren't overwhelmed). Definitely would not want to get COVID in Turkey, Brazil or Mexico.

Originally Posted by the810
That graph doesn't say anything about meassures taken. Look at Spain, France, Italy, Belgium and other places with extreme restrictions in place (Belgium is currently the worst in Europe, by the way).
Agree, but the correlation chart is still very informative. What i find interesting is that Sweden and the USA ended up in roughly the same place but Sweden did not shut down its economy and quarantine the entire population. That suggests the extreme business closures were unnecessary. Conversely, Argentina, Italy and Spain implemented very strict quarantines (worse than USA) and still ended up with death rates comparable to USA (and much worse economic destruction).
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Old Oct 27, 2020, 1:54 pm
  #588  
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Originally Posted by Boraxo
Agree, but the correlation chart is still very informative. What i find interesting is that Sweden and the USA ended up in roughly the same place but Sweden did not shut down its economy and quarantine the entire population. That suggests the extreme business closures were unnecessary. Conversely, Argentina, Italy and Spain implemented very strict quarantines (worse than USA) and still ended up with death rates comparable to USA (and much worse economic destruction).
The USA didn't close down its economy and quarantine its entire population either. Briefly, maybe yes one could argue that happened, but even that is a stretch and it honestly lasted probably a total of 21 days of "strict lockdown". Recall that after less than 30 days, restrictions were agressively rolled back in many states.

Argentina, Chile, Mexico, Brazil, etc. are not exactly fare comparisons -- some of those countries have large "underground" economies that are not exactly regulated and are thus difficult to actually shut down.
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Old Oct 27, 2020, 2:41 pm
  #589  
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500 deaths today in France
Most likely going back to full lockdown Thursday, possible details in the implementation re. schools.

Last edited by l etoile; Oct 27, 2020 at 3:56 pm Reason: You may point out flaws and falsehoods; you may not attack other members
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Old Oct 27, 2020, 4:57 pm
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Originally Posted by fransknorge
500 deaths today in France
Most likely going back to full lockdown Thursday, possible details in the implementation re. schools.
I've read ... potential extension of the 9pm - 6am curfew to cover the whole country and/or weekend lockdowns in hard hit areas. I'm not seeing any threat/rumour of a full lockdown (well, unless you count weekends).

Speaking of rumours, our new one is that Switzerland has such a high infection rate it's going to exempt most of Europe from quarantine (which is currently 10 days and quite strict). Just a rumour at this stage.
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Old Oct 28, 2020, 2:22 am
  #591  
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Sweden's third largest city and the (mostly rural) region that hosts it has had the regional government health authorities put the region into a sort of "please behave as if the region is under lock-down when it comes to non-essential leisure activities" state. With Malmo going this way until at least mid-November, it becomes more likely that more the populous Gothenburg and Stockholm area also eventually move in the same direction as Malmo and this winter will not be a normal Swedish winter for visitors.
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Old Oct 28, 2020, 4:09 am
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Vstra Gtaland has significantly smaller numbers than Skne or Stockholm, so I wouldn't be so sure about Gteborg.

The bigger issue though is that according to what I've heard from people living in Uppsala, the Covid fatigue is now hitting Sweden as well and people seem to largely ignore the new recommendations introduced in Uppsala few days ago. I'm curious where will all of this lead to.

I'm now considering spending some time in Gotland, doing some outdoor activities that would allow plenty of physical distancing while still being able to maintain healthy lifestyle. It should also be cheaper than the rest of Sweden, at least accomodation-wise. I'm currently booked in Stockholm until mid-November. I will then probably trial a few days in Gotland (if possible, I'll also get tested before I go as I would hate to bring new case to the community) and if I like it, I can see myself staying for a while.

Another option I'm now seriously considering is Estonia or Finland. It would require self-isolation for a while (~7 days in EE, not sure about FI) but it would probably be worth it.
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Old Oct 28, 2020, 4:32 am
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Originally Posted by the810
Another option I'm now seriously considering is Estonia or Finland. It would require self-isolation for a while (~7 days in EE, not sure about FI) but it would probably be worth it.
I don't think you will be allowed into Finland.
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Old Oct 28, 2020, 4:43 am
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Originally Posted by The_Bouncer
I don't think you will be allowed into Finland.
Yeah, it looks that way. What I could do is Stockholm > Estonia (self-quarantine and stay for approximately two weeks) > Finland. But the trouble is that ferries don't seem to operate between Sweden and Estonia right now, while transit via other Baltic states seems to be impossible. (EDIT: Actually it seems Tallink has restarted some limited service on Stockholm to Tallinn route, so that's solved.)

Otherwise, Estonia's entry process looks very reasonable.
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Old Oct 28, 2020, 7:00 am
  #595  
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Last edited by fransknorge; Oct 28, 2020 at 7:05 am Reason: Error from the Bundestag correspondant
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Old Oct 28, 2020, 7:25 am
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Originally Posted by the810
Vstra Gtaland has significantly smaller numbers than Skne or Stockholm, so I wouldn't be so sure about Gteborg.

The bigger issue though is that according to what I've heard from people living in Uppsala, the Covid fatigue is now hitting Sweden as well and people seem to largely ignore the new recommendations introduced in Uppsala few days ago. I'm curious where will all of this lead to.

I'm now considering spending some time in Gotland, doing some outdoor activities that would allow plenty of physical distancing while still being able to maintain healthy lifestyle. It should also be cheaper than the rest of Sweden, at least accomodation-wise. I'm currently booked in Stockholm until mid-November. I will then probably trial a few days in Gotland (if possible, I'll also get tested before I go as I would hate to bring new case to the community) and if I like it, I can see myself staying for a while.

Another option I'm now seriously considering is Estonia or Finland. It would require self-isolation for a while (~7 days in EE, not sure about FI) but it would probably be worth it.
Gothenburg has so little capacity to handle a big uptick in hospitalizations even in the best of times that it won't be too long before concerns in Gothenburg rise enough that its region goes the way of Malmo/Skane for much of what remains for this quarter.

Gotland/Visby is cute and nice in the summer, but spending more than a few days in winter there sounds way more dull than being on the mainland where a visitor does not have to count on airlift/boats to go elsewhere. Gotland has very limited medical capacity to handle a surge of hospitalizations for the fall/winter for those with respiratory/vascular challenges arising from Covid-19.
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Old Oct 28, 2020, 7:32 am
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States were COVID hospitalizations are stable or falling in the US: Carolinas, Georgia, Florida, California, Hawaii.

Common denominator? Temperate weather, and a relatively recent first wave (June/July). California is a state that has moved to fewer restrictions in recent months, as has Florida
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Old Oct 28, 2020, 7:54 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Gotland/Visby is cute and nice in the summer, but spending more than a few days in winter there sounds way more dull than being on the mainland where a visitor does not have to count on airlift/boats to go elsewhere.
Thank you, that's helpful. Honestly, I don't need a lot of activities, I just need a place where I can have relatively normal and healthy life. In other words, I'm looking for a place to live in for a month or two, rather than a holiday destination. If I can go for a stroll and hike, visit a restaurant and perhaps grab a drink every now and then, I'm happy. I also have a car with me, which would make trips to other places (nature) in Gotland fairly easy.

Does anyone know what's Finland like these days?
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Old Oct 28, 2020, 10:27 am
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Originally Posted by the810
Does anyone know what's Finland like these days?
IMHO the situation is fairly stable. Since there has been rise in the infections, there are now some restrictions and recommendations for mask usage and working from home whenever possible, but nearly everything is open. The main exception must be nightclubs and similar, which do not want to open since there are restrictions that disallow serving alcohol in the late night (last orders at 22:00, doors close hour later) and how many people can be in the premises once (and that there should be distancing). In various events there are similar regulation on seating arrangements and some events have been cancelled, eg. some sport events have been cancelled when there has been teams with infections.
And obviously there is some regional variation: some areas have not had significant epidemic so far, but there has also been some notorious incidents where some fairly significant infection chains that did spread quite quickly in some areas.
Certainly so far Finland has been spared from the worst of the pandemic, but of course few reckless superspreaders and the situation can change quite quickly. Still, I believe that we will not see any strict actions like true curfew/lockdown in Finland since there has been talk that the Finnish government would prefer to adjust the "normal" legislation to better handle the pandemic rather than use the powers from the law of the state of emergency, which was used in the spring.
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Old Oct 28, 2020, 11:36 am
  #600  
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Germany go to a light lockdown, similar to March but lighter
Schools and kindergartens will remain open
■ Social contacts will be limited to two households with a maximum of 10 people and tourism will be halted
■ Bars will close and restaurants will be limited to takeaways
■ Tattoo and massage parlours will shut
■ Smaller companies badly hit by the lockdown will be reimbursed with up to 75% of their November 2019 takings
■ Mrs Merkel and the state premiers are expected to reconvene on 11 November to reassess the situation
Shops stay open.
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