largeeyes

More like a half lockdown. You can still go to work, just non-essential stores must close. I see this being of limited benefit, but their case rate is just stratospheric at the moment and this may be a case of too little, too late.

The_Bouncer

The problem is that the world is in denial. People still seem to think that if they stay out of bars, wear masks everywhere and spray Lysol on their mail, the big bad virus will go away and we will all live happily every after.

This virus has continued to do its thing, despite every single "measure" that has been put in place and will continue to do so, irrespective of whatever knee jerk reaction the panicking headless chickens come up with next. The sooner the world grows up, accepts that basic fact and learns to live with it, the better.

the810

Sweden had most deaths per capita in the spring. Currently they report one of lowest numbers of new deaths in Europe.

As for your explanations, #1 won't be the case in my opinion, as most people live in cities where the density is high. After all, Sweden did have one of worst numbers in Europe few months back, despite too having low population density. However, the second point about culture could play a significant role, there is naturally less mingling. But I think if governments went a bit easier on their citizens, physical distancing could be implemented in many other parts of Europe (maybe not in the south).

My theory at the moment is that having few well-targeted meassures is the way to deal with this. All the numbers I saw seem to support that. Doing few basic things (e.g. distancing) properly is better than trying to do a lot and ending up with the population ignoring everything.

the810

Also note that the definition of essential stores is very broad. It is also permitted to visit family (again ignoring one of the main infection sources...).

GUWonder

Sweden's population density is rather low -- akin to Minnesota in the US -- but the Swedish population tends to cross a very limited set of domestic nexuses or people exposed to the limited set of domestic nexuses more so than in the US. So even if Swedes tend to have a tighter/narrower social circle, there still is a lot of seasonal exposure to other domestic nexuses in the country; and Christmas is likely to tend to take the roost in that regard (of nexus exposure) this year as a lot of Swedes now behave as if the pandemic is over and do so because the daily Covid-19 deaths in the country have been low and steady for months. During Easter, summer school closings and Midsummer, the Swedish deaths were more fresh on the minds of people, and generally people behaved with that in mind; that is no longer the case. And like in many parts of the rural Upper Midwest of the US, being in a rural area is not all that safe from this virus, and here too it doesn't take a whole lot of Covid-19 patients being admitted before medical care capacity hits its limits.

I wouldn't count on weather or a young population at the destination being a saving grace from visitors getting hit and getting hit hard by this virus during the coming months. I used Iran and India as a a case in point, by bringing them up during the spring months, as an example of how this virus spreading wouldn't just end up gone with rising temperatures and the summer/heat; and it got ugly in both countries even with their temperatures that were well above the summer temperatures in Sweden this year.

fransknorge

Please substantiate this claim with sources explicitly saying that people think that wearing a mask will kill the virus and allows a return to 2019.
Please also substantiate the claim that learning to live with the virus is good and define what learning to live with it means,
Short of doing this you are simply propagating a factless narrative without any close link to facts.
Hint: the fact thread contains clues.

The_Bouncer

What I am saying is that we need to accept that this virus exists and it is almost certainly going to continue existing and doing the rounds at least for the rest of our lifetimes, no matter how much we try to run and hide from it. The idea that trampling on basic freedoms is going to get rid of it is a fairy tale. It is here to stay and we cannot control it.

fransknorge

Again, please substantiate your opinion with facts or reliable work to back it up. I mean otherwise this is a good as a claim that Finnair has the best first class in the world.

Sjoerd

There are now dozens of countries that have proven that this is nonsense.

beachmouse

And it’s a reasonably good hypothesis that if the virus is going to linger for years, marks reduce initial viral load exposure and result in milder cases with fewer negative long term health effects.

Because ‘learning to live with it’ should NOT be giving up on trying to avoid worst case outcomes

The_Bouncer

What happens when those countries open up again? Or are they going to just stay closed?

So do we live in a state of limbo forever? Keep shutting everything down for a few weeks here, a few months there? Kick a few million people out of their jobs a few times a year? Do we wear the muzzles for the rest of our lives? This is my point. This cannot go on. We cannot keep running and hiding from this virus forever. It is unsustainable.

Coming back to the title of the thread, that is why I have decided to disappear to Tanzania. We, in Europe, have become so afraid of death that we have forgotten how to live. Not me. I'm going somewhere where I can start living again.

stimpy

It is much, much worse than a fairy tale. The steps that governments are taking today are destroying the basic health of generations to come, mainly through establishing multi-generational poverty. These facts have been presented several times in these threads and can be discovered with the slightest efforts with Google or even just asking Siri for those who are a bit lazy.. There is no excuse for ignorance in this matter because ignorance means you are separated from humanity. I could go deeper about the fact that governments and media are relatively very silent about the dangers of obesity related to COVID. Governments could put into force better health regimes instead of locking people down at home where they sit around and eat and drink.

Back on the topic of this thread, I agree that we should all go where we feel like going and not feel restricted by COVID. And for the sake of humanity get out and spend a bit of your disposable income at small to medium businesses. It is vacation time in much of Europe and I'm thankful that at least some of us have left home and are touring about.

Sjoerd

They are slowly opening up to each other. And with testing + quarantine they can safely open up to limited numbers of other visitors.


I do live a full and enjoyable life in Europe, thank you very much. I see my friends, I visit places in my own country that are beautiful, I discovered new hobbies. I am close to my family and most of my close friends. Life is good. Is it different than 2019 was? Sure. I did 4 long intercontinental trips and numerous European trips that year. Since March this year, just one foreign European trip and numerous domestic trips. Different, but equally nice.

To each their own, but spending winter in Tanzania without my family and friends sounds like hell to me. Have a good time!

invisible

My 'fact-based reporting' posts somehow mysteriously are disappearing from threads. There are the following countries managed (so far) to control this infection: China, Vietnam, South Korea, Singapore, New Zealand, Australia. I am living in one of the countries mentioned so I am intimately familiar with how it is/was and will be handled. As well as I am quite familiar with how it was handled in the rest of the list.
Question is - do you want the methods used in these countries to apply to your country, yourself, and the rest of the world.

Boraxo

I don’t disagree with your sentiments. Unfortunately there are only about 2 dozen countries that will take US residents, so we are necessarily restricted by COVID. I suppose there are a few others that are viable options if you are willing to quarantine, but that’s not feasible for a 1-2 week vacation.