exbayern

Nor were Germany's hospitals ever overwhelmed. (And the same holds true for many other countries) Yet the difference in restrictions, and timeline, is markedly different between NZ and Germany. Even with active cases, the latest RKI figure is that R0 is still only 0,89 for the last week. As noted, the country is pretty much open from early May, and borders have reopened. Austria is in an even better situation.

The premise of this thread was that if the virus was eradicated, we would see pre-pandemic life return. Isn't that what we want? It's almost at that point now in much of Europe, without having had a harsh lockdown.

THR

They have six times our capacity per capita - and higher in absolute numbers. Germany had so much capacity they were assisting an overwhelmed France and Italy.

New Zealand has so few ICU beds and ventilators - there was no alternative.

The two countries really are not comparable.

the810

Neither was yesterday perfect for people who died in traffic accidents. Yet, we never had a lockdown to prevent them (even though it would be highly efficient).

​​​​​​​This is not about economy. This is about not imprisoning people.

THR

Most New Zealanders are fully supportive of the approach, and New Zealand is hardly a bad place to be "imprisoned" (I don't agree with your hyperbole - by the way).

PaulMSN

No one was imprisoned.

Silver Fox

I do feel sad for NZ with the two new cases. I have a huge amount of respect for JA but I really think she needed to get tough and sack David Clark this time (personally he should have gone last time rather than been demoted). Now they have metaphorically put the "troops on the street" this will be contained again, and I am a lot more confident this will be mitigated for the future. There will be pockets of covid-19 popping up as tourists/residents return and it is interesting to see how that is going to be dealt with. In the absence of any unicorn vaccine, herd immunity it is. Now is not the time for complacency in NZ and I did think that all the "we are covid free" statements might come back to haunt them as I don't think anyone thought there would not be pop-up cases. As the tourists were from the UK then they should have been watched like hawks. I am in the UK and would have expected to have been, ahem, imprisoned had I travelled there for the full 14 days, no exceptions, not one.

Like the OP, the reports I am getting back from the in-laws and friends over there substantiate their experience. I don't have an opinion one way or the other about the rights and wrongs - but what I do know is that if a business says "we will do x", then they had better do "x".

THR

Not sure the rationale there. New Zealand has no chance of herd immunity without a vaccine.

Silver Fox

Sorry, let me clarify what I meant: there are really only two ways, a large proportion of the population either gets infected or gets a vaccine. This particular strain of infectiousness leads the experts to say that it would require ~70% of the population to achieve this. The point I am trying to support is that there is always going to be this ebb and flow until a more elegant solution is found in the shape of a vaccine.

LonghornDXB

In America, the pro-lockdown crowd (who are probably 99% people who get to work from home) call those not wanting permanent lockdowns as "wanting to kill grandma to get a haircut".

Yes, anyone who wants to open the economy is labelled as wanting to do for something as unessential as a haircut. People who lose businesses they spent their life building along with laid off workers are all dismissed as being selfish

PaulMSN

You mischaracterize those who disagree with you. A solid majority in the US still supports caution (NOT permanent lockdown), and those who work from home now are about 48%. Nor do most of them say what you claim.

Sydneyberlin

Thanks for putting words into my mouth which is highly annoying of you. I was never upset about anything- I wanted to show people who live in other places of the world how quickly things can go back to normal once fear of the virus is gone.

freed0m

Probably I am wrong. What I get after reading the first post is that you are upset that COVID-19 is forgotten so quickly.

Mwenenzi

My view was the OP was not upset and not complaining about the COVID-19 situation in NZ. And not forgotten. Almost all NZ restrictions are gone. Life is about the same as ~ 6 months ago for many people. Those who worked in the NZ tourist/travel industry have and will continue to have hard times for many months.
OP did complain about the hotels

Silver Fox

I thought it was exceptionally clear as to the OPs point. It amazes me how people can go off on some abstract point for the most unfathomable of reasons. It reminds me of the old anecdote about how messages get muddled when, in the first world war they used to pass messages down the line. One started off as "send reinforcements, we're going to advance" and ended up as "send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance". We have a whole thread where misunderstanding posts is compulsory, I thought I had stumbled across its brother here.

LonghornDXB

That is the situation, now, in June, and after a certain country wide protest cause.....

Back in April, people were mostly divided into 2 camps; those who wanted to lift lockdowns, and those who wanted them going on till there was a vaccine or a cure. When i look at the web or people in my circle, those who vouched for permanent lockdowns were overwhelmingly doctors, programmers, writers (!), i..e people who were not affected by staying home either because they would keep their jobs or they could afford to work from home.
When protests happened in Michigan and Colorado (storming the Capitol was moronic though), these people were outraged at the "grandma killers". When Georgia opened up in late April, these same people were predicting people to be in coffins just because they went to restaurants. Joggers were facing ire because they were not staying home and watching netflix

When the protests happened (for a good cause albeit), a lot of these people became silent; no labels of grandma killer was put on looters as that would be racist.
A lot of doctors supported the protest (the same doctors who were screaming murder at the far smaller protests in Michigan), and the whole 6 feet nonsense got put into rest.

Masks are more important than keeping 6 feet between people, and it took a protest for a cause they support for people to realize this.

What has happened now is that the majority of people, on both sides of the political divide, seem to be supporting opening things up, but with caution.

All those misleading slogans of "you can bring jobs back, not lives", or "rather be unemployed than dead" have fallen flat