EU promises “We will have a summer tourist season” [for travellers from Europe]
May 16, 2020, 1:11 pm
#151
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It doesn't matter. France already said their borders are closed until at least June 10th or 15th, I can't recall which. Each country can decide when and which border they will open.
May 16, 2020, 2:30 pm
#152
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Norway and Denmark are freaked out by what opening up more to Sweden will do (to Norway and Denmark) at this point. Part of the distaste for opening more to Sweden now may be “janteloven” in a way since Sweden didn’t shut down much of anything while Denmark and Norway did, but it’s the Swedish death counts that have them concerned.
May 16, 2020, 4:31 pm
#153
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I'd never heard of jantoloven.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante
Hmm, a lot of it sounds like MAGA ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante
Hmm, a lot of it sounds like MAGA ...
May 19, 2020, 12:30 am
#154
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,765
Where do you get this? Everything I've heard says that the US is very aggressive in counting virus deaths, such as someone confirmed positive and dying in a car accident being counted. I have also heard of people being sick with cancer for years and then dying recently. The corpses are tested after they died, and counted as a virus death if tested positive. The US is overcounting if anything!
The testing rates and infection rates are right in there with Western Europe numbers. Some higher, some lower. The death rates in the US, however, are much lower than most of Western Europe. Besides death rates, the US would fit right in.
Also, the US is very large and diverse. It wouldn't be unreasonable to count each US state separately to make a more accurate comparison. And if you do that, New York state would be at the top. Almost every other state would be low, like Germany or Denmark. The federal government largely left it up to each individual state to decide how to handle it, much like the European Union mostly let each EU country decide how to handle it. In the US at least, it makes sense. NYC needs different actions than Wyoming. Ha, Wyoming is so vast and sparsely populated that they practice social distancing by default!
France has cases from 2019. Why isn't France being criticized for not recognizing it and shutting things down then? Yes, I know, they didn't know about it. It wasn't evident, and nobody knew what it was back then. And I agree. However, we know full well that had it been the US instead of France in the exact same scenario, the US would be highly criticized.
As a disclaimer, I will say that although I am American, I am an expat living in Africa. I haven't been in the US for almost a year now. It's interesting that here you don't hear much about the US. It's all Western Europe. The blame goes to Europe rather than the US, probably because the first number of confirmed cases here were people who had been in Europe and brought it back.
I keep reading about how poorly the US is doing, mostly on Reddit. However, nobody ever says what they're actually doing or not doing. Nobody seems to know. The media and every public forum has a blanket viewpoint (for everything, not just COVID 19): US bad, Western Europe good. Look at how other countries are raising questions about China. It's hailed as the thing that must be done. The US did it a long time ago, and it was highly criticized.
OK, I'm finished. I think I've made my viewpoint clear! Fire away!
The testing rates and infection rates are right in there with Western Europe numbers. Some higher, some lower. The death rates in the US, however, are much lower than most of Western Europe. Besides death rates, the US would fit right in.
Also, the US is very large and diverse. It wouldn't be unreasonable to count each US state separately to make a more accurate comparison. And if you do that, New York state would be at the top. Almost every other state would be low, like Germany or Denmark. The federal government largely left it up to each individual state to decide how to handle it, much like the European Union mostly let each EU country decide how to handle it. In the US at least, it makes sense. NYC needs different actions than Wyoming. Ha, Wyoming is so vast and sparsely populated that they practice social distancing by default!
France has cases from 2019. Why isn't France being criticized for not recognizing it and shutting things down then? Yes, I know, they didn't know about it. It wasn't evident, and nobody knew what it was back then. And I agree. However, we know full well that had it been the US instead of France in the exact same scenario, the US would be highly criticized.
As a disclaimer, I will say that although I am American, I am an expat living in Africa. I haven't been in the US for almost a year now. It's interesting that here you don't hear much about the US. It's all Western Europe. The blame goes to Europe rather than the US, probably because the first number of confirmed cases here were people who had been in Europe and brought it back.
I keep reading about how poorly the US is doing, mostly on Reddit. However, nobody ever says what they're actually doing or not doing. Nobody seems to know. The media and every public forum has a blanket viewpoint (for everything, not just COVID 19): US bad, Western Europe good. Look at how other countries are raising questions about China. It's hailed as the thing that must be done. The US did it a long time ago, and it was highly criticized.
OK, I'm finished. I think I've made my viewpoint clear! Fire away!
Look at the countries that are struggling the most. Brazil, US and Russia. They all have something in common---Governments that deny the seriousness of the situation.
May 19, 2020, 3:39 am
#155
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 556
My point was that Western Europe screwed up a lot of things and we learned our lesson. Like you I am an American Expat as well, but live in Europe. Italy and Spain really screwed up, but a lot of lessons could have been learned. The US had time that we didn't have and they wasted it. I think your point about each state also gets to the heart of the problem. This sort of emergency requires a coordinated, nationwide plan. There is simply no plan with this Administration, other than to stick their heads in the sand. It's like clockwork now, 20-25k new cases per day, another 1k dead. And this is with everything closed!
Look at the countries that are struggling the most. Brazil, US and Russia. They all have something in common---Governments that deny the seriousness of the situation.
May 19, 2020, 4:51 am
#156
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,765
A nationwide plan in the US is not the answer. New York City needs to take a different approach than Wyoming or North Dakota. A lockdown in those states would be useless. If the federal government was going to issue directives, it would have needed to be different for each state. It's better to leave it up to the individual states. The US federal government issuing a nationwide directive would be like the EU telling the EU countries what to do.
By what measure is the US struggling? Most of Western Europe has worse results in almost every measure. Why aren't they in this list? Belgium, the 2nd worst country in the world (after San Marino), has 3 times the death rate of the US. And yet you never hear a word about it. The media, including social media, is so anti-US and anti-Trump that they don't think straight. No matter what they do, it is wrong. It's ridiculous. If the situations in the US and Western Europe were switched, all you'd hear about is the high death rate in the US and that Europe's approach is the correct way to handle it, proven by the lower death rate.
By what measure is the US struggling? Most of Western Europe has worse results in almost every measure. Why aren't they in this list? Belgium, the 2nd worst country in the world (after San Marino), has 3 times the death rate of the US. And yet you never hear a word about it. The media, including social media, is so anti-US and anti-Trump that they don't think straight. No matter what they do, it is wrong. It's ridiculous. If the situations in the US and Western Europe were switched, all you'd hear about is the high death rate in the US and that Europe's approach is the correct way to handle it, proven by the lower death rate.
You are really using the argument that states are individuals and the states are part of the US to support your argument where it helps. You can't have your cake and eat it to. US cases per Capita is almost identical to Belgium, and will pass them in coming weeks despite the month or so lag. The US is 39th in testing per capita. If you want to throw out small states and those not affected, fine. You still have 4 states, with massive populations with a higher death rate than Belgium. All this, despite as you point out, the vastness and wide open spaces in parts of the US. Belgium had 279 new cases yesterday. The US, 22,630.
The media isn't anti-US. The EU was a major supporter of the US for a long time. Don't know what to tell you about anti-Trump. I'd tell you want I thought of him, but it would get deleted anyways. I'm American, but I find the US and especially him, currently repulsive.
Edit: A quarter of all new worldwide cases yesterday were in the US. The US is 4% of the world population.
May 19, 2020, 5:19 am
#157
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 556
And the US death rate is 1/3 of Belgium. So, which is better? Similar infection rate, but one has much less deaths.
Like I said, I guarantee you that if the situations were switched, the same countries being criticized now would still be criticized. What is actually happening is less important than who it is.
I am American too, and I also do not live in the US. I've got the same skin in the game that you do. Either way, I think the saying "Never wrestle with the pig..." applies here for both of us.
Like I said, I guarantee you that if the situations were switched, the same countries being criticized now would still be criticized. What is actually happening is less important than who it is.
I am American too, and I also do not live in the US. I've got the same skin in the game that you do. Either way, I think the saying "Never wrestle with the pig..." applies here for both of us.
May 19, 2020, 6:00 am
#158
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berlin
Posts: 1,765
And the US death rate is 1/3 of Belgium. So, which is better? Similar infection rate, but one has much less deaths.
Like I said, I guarantee you that if the situations were switched, the same countries being criticized now would still be criticized. What is actually happening is less important than who it is.
I am American too, and I also do not live in the US. I've got the same skin in the game that you do. Either way, I think the saying "Never wrestle with the pig..." applies here for both of us.
Like I said, I guarantee you that if the situations were switched, the same countries being criticized now would still be criticized. What is actually happening is less important than who it is.
I am American too, and I also do not live in the US. I've got the same skin in the game that you do. Either way, I think the saying "Never wrestle with the pig..." applies here for both of us.
It's sad, because I'd like to visit my family eventually, and while getting in shouldn't be a problem, being let back in to the EU without quarantine is going to take some time with the situation as it is in the US.
May 19, 2020, 6:02 am
#159
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First of all, media do speak about Belgium
Second: Belgium counts death very differently than US, they are over-counting (and probably the only country to do so) as every suspected COVID-19 death, even without test, is considered as one.
Hence why comparisons are useless on those numbers. Excess mortality is a much better measure and Belgium does better than the US there.
Second: Belgium counts death very differently than US, they are over-counting (and probably the only country to do so) as every suspected COVID-19 death, even without test, is considered as one.
Hence why comparisons are useless on those numbers. Excess mortality is a much better measure and Belgium does better than the US there.
May 19, 2020, 7:12 am
#160
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,265
This thread is about a gradual opening of borders in the EU mostly for European tourists. Discussion and comparison with the situation in the US does not belong here. Please observe the forum posting guidelines which state “This is not the place for political discussions.” Those eligible may like to consider posting in one of the threads in OMNI/PR.
NewbieRunner
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NewbieRunner
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May 19, 2020, 7:27 am
#161
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: SOF
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Posts: 111
As of 1st of June Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia (likely Romania also) allow travelling without quarantine between these countries.
https://www.bnr.bg/en/post/101278322
https://www.bnr.bg/en/post/101278322
May 19, 2020, 7:31 am
#162
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It is becoming increasingly clear that "Europe is for the Europeans" with respect to having a "Summer Tourist Season". Foreigners need not apply.
Every American, Canadian, or Asian can pretty much forget visiting Europe this year. Advice is: take a vacation at home and support your local community. Europeans don't need and don't want your dollars, yen, or renminbi.
Every American, Canadian, or Asian can pretty much forget visiting Europe this year. Advice is: take a vacation at home and support your local community. Europeans don't need and don't want your dollars, yen, or renminbi.
May 19, 2020, 7:59 am
#163
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands
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Posts: 9,396
It is becoming increasingly clear that "Europe is for the Europeans" with respect to having a "Summer Tourist Season". Foreigners need not apply.
Every American, Canadian, or Asian can pretty much forget visiting Europe this year. Advice is: take a vacation at home and support your local community. Europeans don't need and don't want your dollars, yen, or renminbi.
Every American, Canadian, or Asian can pretty much forget visiting Europe this year. Advice is: take a vacation at home and support your local community. Europeans don't need and don't want your dollars, yen, or renminbi.
May 19, 2020, 8:37 am
#164
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,265
It is becoming increasingly clear that "Europe is for the Europeans" with respect to having a "Summer Tourist Season". Foreigners need not apply.
Every American, Canadian, or Asian can pretty much forget visiting Europe this year. Advice is: take a vacation at home and support your local community. Europeans don't need and don't want your dollars, yen, or renminbi.
Every American, Canadian, or Asian can pretty much forget visiting Europe this year. Advice is: take a vacation at home and support your local community. Europeans don't need and don't want your dollars, yen, or renminbi.