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EU promises “We will have a summer tourist season” [for travellers from Europe]

EU promises “We will have a summer tourist season” [for travellers from Europe]

 
Old Jun 15, 2020, 2:53 pm
  #811  
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Originally Posted by exbayern
I'm not 'done' but I am really frustrated that there is not a reasonable balance in many regions. I'm one who is really struggling with my own health issues due to cancer, and how the world has just pushed the rest of health issues aside to only focus on COVID.
Really sorry to hear about your health issues, and yes another excellent and profound point. I know Karol Sikora, a professor and former UK government advisor is incredibly worried about how cancer/strokes have been thrown under a bus as everything was diverted to covid19. Another example of the sheer madness of the hysteria and reaction to this virus. Bonkers.
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 2:57 pm
  #812  
 
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Posts: 6,967
Originally Posted by flyingcrazy
Well then shes insane as BC is probably the most tourism dependent province in Canada.

Another thing this virus crises has shown, is how power mad some leaders are. Real shame.
Definitely on both counts. The three dudes who book a campsite for 2 nights to drink beer aren't going to replace the revenue of a retired couple from Germany who rent a camper for a few weeks, or drive to Alaska, or Banff, etc. There is no way that local tourism can replace international tourism revenue.

I said the same re egos on the weekend. Drosten has reverted back into his lab at the Charité, I think probably quite happy to get out of the spotlight again. At least he did not have a pair of shoes named after him. https://www.fluevog.com/flueblog/faq...dr-henry-shoe/ I don't even know the names of most public health, virologists, etc but there are a few who seem to have really enjoyed their daily time in the spotlight and now the ego is driving the decisions in the competition for zero cases. Thankfully Mutti took charge and opened up (and then the states took control away from Mutti and went even more quickly, with a good result so far)
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 3:01 pm
  #813  
 
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Originally Posted by flyingcrazy
Really sorry to hear about your health issues, and yes another excellent and profound point. I know Karol Sikora, a professor and former UK government advisor is incredibly worried about how cancer/strokes have been thrown under a bus as everything was diverted to covid19. Another example of the sheer madness of the hysteria and reaction to this virus. Bonkers.
Thanks for the sentiment; fortunately surgery number two during the pandemic period is now happening in a few hours I don't know if being near the top of the list is a good sign, but I'm relieved that there is progress. Unfortunately the next big one will probably be pushed into next year which means many more months of pain.

In May Germany said about 100,000 surgeries had been cancelled, with about 24,000 cancer related. I'm glad to see that at least one poster here has been able to fly yesterday from the US to Germany for treatment, and that reasonable exceptions are being made by some countries.
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 3:02 pm
  #814  
 
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Originally Posted by notquiteaff
Thanks. Unfortunately (but not surprisingly) they seem to have problems keeping up with the ever changing rules. For example, for travel from outside the EU to Germany they say:

”May I enter this country without being subject to a mandatory quarantine?
YES, WITH LIMITATIONFrom: 13-05-2020People entering Germany from outside the EU are required to self-quarantine for 14 days upon entry. People travelling from EU countries and from Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway, Switzerland and the United Kingdom are not subject to this requirement.

That isn’t accurate for at least one state (NRW) where a court recently voided the quarantine requirement. And I think other states refer to the RKI assessment of the origin country to determine whether quarantine applies.
It is correct. Travelers from high risk countries (including Sweden) are required to notify public health authorities and quarantine for 14 days.

Here is the link to the letter you should be given when you arrive in Germany: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/...ublicationFile

And here is the latest (updated today) list of countries considered high risk: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/...biete_neu.html
  • Afghanistan
  • Egypt
  • Albania
  • Algeria
  • Angola
  • Equatorial Guinea
  • Argentina
  • Armenia
  • Azerbaijan
  • Ethiopia
  • Bahamas
  • Bahrain
  • Bangladesh
  • Barbados
  • Belize
  • Benin
  • Bhutan
  • Bolivia
  • Bosnia and Herzegovina
  • Brazil
  • Brunei
  • Burkina Faso
  • Burundi
  • Chile
  • Costa Rica
  • Ivory Coast
  • Dominican Republic
  • Djibouti
  • Ecuador
  • El Salvador
  • Eritrea
  • Eswatini
  • Gabon
  • Gambia
  • Ghana
  • Guatemala
  • Guinea
  • Guinea-Bissau
  • Guyana
  • Haiti
  • Honduras
  • India
  • Indonesia
  • Iraq
  • Iran
  • Jamaica
  • Yemen
  • Cambodia
  • Cameroon
  • Kazakhstan
  • Qatar
  • Kenya
  • Kyrgyzstan
  • Colombia
  • Comoros
  • Congo DR
  • Congo Rep
  • Korea (People's Democratic Republic, North Korea)
  • Kosovo
  • Cuba
  • Kuwait
  • Laos
  • Lesotho
  • Lebanon
  • Liberia
  • Libya
  • Madagascar
  • Malawi
  • Malaysia
  • Mali
  • Morocco
  • Mauritania
  • Mexico
  • Mongolia
  • Montenegro
  • Mozambique
  • Myanmar
  • Namibia
  • Nepal
  • Nicaragua
  • Niger
  • Nigeria
  • North Macedonia
  • Oman
  • Pakistan
  • Panama
  • Paraguay
  • Peru
  • Philippines
  • Puerto Rico
  • Republic of Moldova
  • Russian Federation
  • Saint Lucia
  • Zambia
  • Saudi Arabia
  • Sweden
  • Senegal
  • Serbia
  • Sierra Leone
  • Zimbabwe
  • Somalia
  • Sri Lanka
  • South Africa
  • Sudan
  • South Sudan
  • Suriname
  • Syrian Arab Republic
  • Tajikistan
  • Tanzania
  • Thailand
  • Togo
  • Trinidad Tobago
  • Chad
  • Turkey
  • Uganda
  • Ukraine
  • USA - the following states are currently considered risk areas:
    • Arizona
    • Arkansas
    • South Carolina
    • Louisiana
    • Mississippi
    • Iowa
    • Utah
    • Maryland
    • District of Columbia
    • Tennessee
    • Nebraska
    • California
    • Georgia
    • Florida
    • South Dakota
  • Uzbekistan
  • Venezuela
  • United Arab Emirates
  • Vietnam
  • Belarus
  • Central African Republic

The court verdict you are referring to was in Saxony and determined that a blanket quarantine could not be put in place - it had to be limited to travelers arriving from high risk locations.
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 3:06 pm
  #815  
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Originally Posted by exbayern
Thanks for the sentiment; fortunately surgery number two during the pandemic period is now happening in a few hours I don't know if being near the top of the list is a good sign, but I'm relieved that there is progress. Unfortunately the next big one will probably be pushed into next year which means many more months of pain.

In May Germany said about 100,000 surgeries had been cancelled, with about 24,000 cancer related. I'm glad to see that at least one poster here has been able to fly yesterday from the US to Germany for treatment, and that reasonable exceptions are being made by some countries.
Glad to hear you have surgery planned and booked in soon, and wishing you all the best for it!

I agreed with your other post too about the egos of certain medical experts. They are absolutely loving this. They love the air time and in their own self interest they of course want to prolong this. A classic example would be Neil Ferguson 'Professor Lockdown' in the UK (who even broke his own lockdown recommendations to visit his lover). However there is only so much an economy can take. Will be very interesting to see in 3-6 months, how the Premier of BC copes with the incredibly angry tourism industry and the high levels of unemployment....(not unique to BC of course, this will be worldwide).
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 3:07 pm
  #816  
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Originally Posted by 8420PR
It is correct. Travelers from high risk countries (including Sweden) are required to notify public health authorities and quarantine for 14 days.

Here is the link to the letter you should be given when you arrive in Germany: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/...ublicationFile

And here is the latest (updated today) list of countries considered high risk: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/...biete_neu.html
  • Afghanistan
  • Egypt
  • Albania
  • Algeria
  • Angola
  • Equatorial Guinea
  • Argentina
  • Armenia
  • Azerbaijan
  • Ethiopia
  • Bahamas
  • Bahrain
  • Bangladesh
  • Barbados
  • Belize
  • Benin
  • Bhutan
  • Bolivia
  • Bosnia and Herzegovina
  • Brazil
  • Brunei
  • Burkina Faso
  • Burundi
  • Chile
  • Costa Rica
  • Ivory Coast
  • Dominican Republic
  • Djibouti
  • Ecuador
  • El Salvador
  • Eritrea
  • Eswatini
  • Gabon
  • Gambia
  • Ghana
  • Guatemala
  • Guinea
  • Guinea-Bissau
  • Guyana
  • Haiti
  • Honduras
  • India
  • Indonesia
  • Iraq
  • Iran
  • Jamaica
  • Yemen
  • Cambodia
  • Cameroon
  • Kazakhstan
  • Qatar
  • Kenya
  • Kyrgyzstan
  • Colombia
  • Comoros
  • Congo DR
  • Congo Rep
  • Korea (People's Democratic Republic, North Korea)
  • Kosovo
  • Cuba
  • Kuwait
  • Laos
  • Lesotho
  • Lebanon
  • Liberia
  • Libya
  • Madagascar
  • Malawi
  • Malaysia
  • Mali
  • Morocco
  • Mauritania
  • Mexico
  • Mongolia
  • Montenegro
  • Mozambique
  • Myanmar
  • Namibia
  • Nepal
  • Nicaragua
  • Niger
  • Nigeria
  • North Macedonia
  • Oman
  • Pakistan
  • Panama
  • Paraguay
  • Peru
  • Philippines
  • Puerto Rico
  • Republic of Moldova
  • Russian Federation
  • Saint Lucia
  • Zambia
  • Saudi Arabia
  • Sweden
  • Senegal
  • Serbia
  • Sierra Leone
  • Zimbabwe
  • Somalia
  • Sri Lanka
  • South Africa
  • Sudan
  • South Sudan
  • Suriname
  • Syrian Arab Republic
  • Tajikistan
  • Tanzania
  • Thailand
  • Togo
  • Trinidad Tobago
  • Chad
  • Turkey
  • Uganda
  • Ukraine
  • USA - the following states are currently considered risk areas:
    • Arizona
    • Arkansas
    • South Carolina
    • Louisiana
    • Mississippi
    • Iowa
    • Utah
    • Maryland
    • District of Columbia
    • Tennessee
    • Nebraska
    • California
    • Georgia
    • Florida
    • South Dakota
  • Uzbekistan
  • Venezuela
  • United Arab Emirates
  • Vietnam
  • Belarus
  • Central African Republic

The court verdict you are referring to was in Saxony and determined that a blanket quarantine could not be put in place - it had to be limited to travelers arriving from high risk locations.
Relieved to not see the UK on there! Probably the only list I have so far seen where UK is not highlighted as a high risk state.
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 3:09 pm
  #817  
 
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Originally Posted by flyingcrazy
It baffles me how places want to destroy everything else in order to weather this pandemic. Is poverty not a killer too?

In my view what is the point of desperately trying to survive if life is miserable, hiding and being fearful of everything.
https://www.oecd.org/economic-outlook/

They dont, generally Europe has managed to have not only a far worse health impact from Covid its also managed to achieve a worse economic impact. Even Sweden trails the main APAC economies of Japan, Aus, South Korea because if you dont deal with the virus you will have serious impacts to economy regardless of any shutdowns. To be honest, you can scratch your head and wonder how APAC is so crazy but I can assure you in APAC we are more interested in looking at the results.

And fwiw, the only country that locked down as strictly as Europe was NZ, which now has no restrictions apart from the border, and the rest of the countries had lighter and shorter lockdowns. We are not living in fear, were sitting in cafes, restaurants and bars enjoying ourselves.
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 3:11 pm
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Originally Posted by flyingcrazy
It baffles me how places want to destroy everything else in order to weather this pandemic. Is poverty not a killer too?

In my view what is the point of desperately trying to survive if life is miserable, hiding and being fearful of everything.
Not realy my point, sorry. Its more the people that are doing full 180s now, from staying home to "screw it, i'm going out". Thats just not how virusses work. You cant just declare you're done with distancing and hygine.
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 3:11 pm
  #819  
 
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Originally Posted by 8420PR
It is correct. Travelers from high risk countries (including Sweden) are required to notify public health authorities and quarantine for 14 days.

Here is the link to the letter you should be given when you arrive in Germany: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/...ublicationFile

And here is the latest (updated today) list of countries considered high risk: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/...biete_neu.html
Thanks for the link! And for anyone confused, the countries are listed alphabetically in German. I went to the link to read it as some of the country names are quite different ie Belarus = 'White Russia' so the list does not become alphabetical when translated into English.
Originally Posted by Yreal
Not realy my point, sorry. Its more the people that are doing full 180s now, from staying home to "screw it, i'm going out". Thats just not how virusses work. You cant just declare you're done with distancing and hygine.
But that is what opening up should be - reasonable steps with balanced risk. Right now I am sitting surrounded by young people, in small groups, all of us having a meal and working and chatting in the fresh air. Being in a common space, with people around me, having a meal someone else prepared, and then after this walking for a coffee to enjoy the fresh air is absolutely within what should be happening now and incredibly low risk. It's also required from a mental health perspective.

I had about 5 days of super hyper cleaning etc before my mind rationally considered risk.

If I could I would be on a flight this week going 'somewhere' and still consider that low risk so long as it was not to a hot zone.
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 3:39 pm
  #820  
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Originally Posted by IMOA
https://www.oecd.org/economic-outlook/

And fwiw, the only country that locked down as strictly as Europe was NZ, which now has no restrictions apart from the border, and the rest of the countries had lighter and shorter lockdowns. We are not living in fear, were sitting in cafes, restaurants and bars enjoying ourselves.
My point was not that people in Asian nations are hiding in fear, that was point was directed elsewhere. My point is Asia shutting out the outside world is pretty unsustainable. I know Singapore very well, worked there, have many colleagues and friends there still, the place is a trading hub reliant hugely on the outside world. To stay shut risks it losing its status in the world big time. The world will pass it by.

As a regime it relies on keeping its people relatively affluent to put up with lack of certain freedoms we are used to in the west. If it becomes poorer through self inflicted recession and self isolation, things may go downhill rapidly....
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 3:41 pm
  #821  
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Originally Posted by Yreal
Not realy my point, sorry. Its more the people that are doing full 180s now, from staying home to "screw it, i'm going out". Thats just not how virusses work. You cant just declare you're done with distancing and hygine.
I do not think people are saying that though. We are not saying 'never wash your hands and hug everyone you see', we are saying that the restrictions on many enjoyable aspects to life (eating out, going to the cinema, travelling) need to stop as the adverse effects on the economy, mental and physical health of keeping this restrictions will likely be far worse than what the virus can do.
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 4:18 pm
  #822  
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I am glad to see some rationality and sense of proportion returning to these boards, at least on the Europe threads.

At least in the developed world, we have become so tunnel visioned about Covid-19, that literally everything else has been forgotten.

Now, in Europe at least, people are realising that we cannot simply stop the world from turning. People need to work, countries need to function and life needs to go on. ​​​​

The problem that Australia and NZ have is that they have painted themselves into a corner. They are effectively isolated from the rest of the world. As soon as they open their borders, this virus is going to get in.

They can't stop their own people from travelling indefinitely, and they can't carry on banging people up in hotels for years. So eventually they are going to end up having to live with it.

Europe is waking up to this and I, for one, am glad.
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 4:38 pm
  #823  
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Originally Posted by The_Bouncer
I am glad to see some rationality and sense of proportion returning to these boards, at least on the Europe threads.

At least in the developed world, we have become so tunnel visioned about Covid-19, that literally everything else has been forgotten.

Now, in Europe at least, people are realising that we cannot simply stop the world from turning. People need to work, countries need to function and life needs to go on. ​​​​

The problem that Australia and NZ have is that they have painted themselves into a corner. They are effectively isolated from the rest of the world. As soon as they open their borders, this virus is going to get in.

They can't stop their own people from travelling indefinitely, and they can't carry on banging people up in hotels for years. So eventually they are going to end up having to live with it.

Europe is waking up to this and I, for one, am glad.
Yes Europe has realised, life must go on!

I for one am tired of the media in particular going on about how well NZ have handled this. They have now shut themselves off from the world with no way out! They are well and truly in a corner, and one they are now stuck in. Either they reopen and risk covid or stay shut for how long? Australia may survive with its natural resources shut off forever, but NZ certainly cant. I do not envy their situation at all, am very glad to be in Europe and a European citizen (UK is in Europe, let us never forget )
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 4:45 pm
  #824  
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They don't get much foreign tourists this time of the year do they?

Maybe they will change their policy when it's near their high season.
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Old Jun 15, 2020, 5:04 pm
  #825  
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The rules are really simple:

1. Keep 6 feet (2 meters) distance from anyone who you do not live with, at all times, indoors or outdoors.
2. If less than 6 feet, wear a mask (indoors or outdoors).
3. When indoors for a reasonable amount of time, wear a mask and increase spacing. All flying requires a mask.
4. Maintain regular handwashing/hand sanitizing.

If everyone could follow this, the pandemic will over everywhere and we can keep going almost as usual. But enter the anti-maskers, and we will be back to outbreaks and lockdowns.
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