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EU promises “We will have a summer tourist season” [for travellers from Europe]

EU promises “We will have a summer tourist season” [for travellers from Europe]

 
Old May 19, 2020, 9:02 am
  #166  
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Originally Posted by nieszprot
As of 1st of June Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia (likely Romania also) allow travelling without quarantine between these countries.
https://www.bnr.bg/en/post/101278322
I though Croatia was opening too? Any word about Montenegro?
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Old May 19, 2020, 9:18 am
  #167  
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Originally Posted by Epicura
I assume you just missed the OP, the official communications as shared and Mod's alert? This thread was about reopening of internal borders from the start. Oops
Originally Posted by Dieuwer
Perhaps the title should reflect that.
The title has been updated for the benefit of those who have not read the first two posts.
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Old May 19, 2020, 11:50 am
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Originally Posted by fransknorge
First of all, media do speak about Belgium
Not anywhere that I've seen. At first it was Italy, then Spain, then the US. Maybe the media in Belgium speak about Belgium?

Second: Belgium counts death very differently than US, they are over-counting (and probably the only country to do so) as every suspected COVID-19 death, even without test, is considered as one.
Hence why comparisons are useless on those numbers. Excess mortality is a much better measure and Belgium does better than the US there.
I'm not sure where you got the info about the US, but it is definitely not true. If a car accident victim has tested positive, he/she is recorded as a COVID-19 fatality. They test people who died of cancer if they haven't been tested, and if the test is positive, it's a COVID-19 death. I don't know that they count untested deaths though. They also test people multiple times, so one positive person can add four to the infected tally. Why? I have no idea!

The US is definitely overcounting, but maybe not to the extent that Belgium is.

However, you are certainly correct that comparisons are more or less useless. So why do you use them?

At the end of the day, it makes no difference what the US does or doesn't do. It'll be criticized.
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Old May 19, 2020, 12:42 pm
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Originally Posted by g289t
I'm not sure where you got the info about the US, but it is definitely not true. If a car accident victim has tested positive, he/she is recorded as a COVID-19 fatality. They test people who died of cancer if they haven't been tested, and if the test is positive, it's a COVID-19 death. I don't know that they count untested deaths though. They also test people multiple times, so one positive person can add four to the infected tally. Why? I have no idea!

The US is definitely overcounting, but maybe not to the extent that Belgium is.
Do you have a reliable source for your statement? Every source I've seen says the opposite. There is no US national standard system for attributing deaths, but this article from Scientific American concludes that "coronavirus death tolls are likely an underestimate" (my emphasis). The most telling statistic is excess deaths: the number of deaths recorded, minus the average number over the same period. These numbers are consistently positive and disturbingly high in the United States.
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Old May 19, 2020, 12:56 pm
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Originally Posted by g289t
I'm not sure where you got the info about the US, but it is definitely not true. If a car accident victim has tested positive, he/she is recorded as a COVID-19 fatality. They test people who died of cancer if they haven't been tested, and if the test is positive, it's a COVID-19 death. I don't know that they count untested deaths though. They also test people multiple times, so one positive person can add four to the infected tally. Why? I have no idea!

The US is definitely overcounting, but maybe not to the extent that Belgium is.
The US only lists COVID-19 on the death certificate and includes in the statistics if the disease played a role in that person dying. Most experts believe that the US is under reporting deaths.

https://www.bbc.com/news/52665099

There are of course many areas of the US that are less impacted by COVID-19 than some European countries (and vice versa). This however is unrelated to opening up of the borders between neighboring EU countries, as unless the risk magically disappears one day each country will take a series of small steps in opening their country, borders and economy.
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Old May 19, 2020, 1:04 pm
  #171  
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Originally Posted by g289t
Not anywhere that I've seen. At first it was Italy, then Spain, then the US. Maybe the media in Belgium speak about Belgium?



I'm not sure where you got the info about the US, but it is definitely not true. If a car accident victim has tested positive, he/she is recorded as a COVID-19 fatality. They test people who died of cancer if they haven't been tested, and if the test is positive, it's a COVID-19 death. I don't know that they count untested deaths though. They also test people multiple times, so one positive person can add four to the infected tally. Why? I have no idea!

The US is definitely overcounting, but maybe not to the extent that Belgium is.

However, you are certainly correct that comparisons are more or less useless. So why do you use them?

At the end of the day, it makes no difference what the US does or doesn't do. It'll be criticized.
Credible source please for the fact that car accident are counted as COViD 19.

For death count in Belgium : Coronavirus: Why so many people are dying in Belgium https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52491210

Excess death in US:
https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-...3-955839e06441
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...oll-total.html
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Old May 19, 2020, 1:12 pm
  #172  
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Actual stats updated today...Africa: 2 831 deaths; the five countries reporting most deaths are Egypt (645), Algeria (555), South Africa (286), Morocco (192) and Nigeria (191).

Asia: 25 037 deaths; the five countries reporting most deaths are Iran (7 057), China (4 638), Turkey (4 171), India (3 163) and Indonesia (1 191).

America: 126 832 deaths; the five countries reporting most deaths are United States (90 353), Brazil (16 792), Canada (5 842), Mexico (5 332) and Ecuador (2 799).

Europe: 163 367 deaths; the five countries reporting most deaths are United Kingdom (34 796), Italy (32 007), France (28 239), Spain (27 709) and Belgium (9 080).

Oceania: 127 deaths; the four countries reporting deaths are Australia (99), New Zealand (21), Guam (5) and Northern Mariana Islands (2).
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/geogra...019-ncov-cases

The population comparison for the US would be the EU, which is wee bit larger than the US. But overall Europe has far more deaths to COVID.
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Old May 19, 2020, 2:28 pm
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Well, three stupidos from GER are rejected entry in Majorca after the local authorities interrogated them and found no essential grounds for travelling. Probably these "Hohlbirne" wanted to start the summer season too eagerly.😁😁😁. No need to say they have to take the next flight back!
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Old May 19, 2020, 2:42 pm
  #174  
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Originally Posted by Dieuwer
It is becoming increasingly clear that "Europe is for the Europeans" with respect to having a "Summer Tourist Season". Foreigners need not apply.
Every American, Canadian, or Asian can pretty much forget visiting Europe this year. Advice is: take a vacation at home and support your local community. Europeans don't need and don't want your dollars, yen, or renminbi.
In some cases they don't even want each others euros despite bold statements from the EU Commission.
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Old May 19, 2020, 2:57 pm
  #175  
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The EU population is close to 445 million people. [The US population is close to 330 million.] Balkanized travel is not great for travel service providers but the big drag for them in the EU this summer will come from the GDP hit that has already taken place in the EU/EEA.

Last edited by GUWonder; May 19, 2020 at 3:03 pm
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Old May 20, 2020, 12:37 am
  #176  
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Originally Posted by stimpy

The population comparison for the US would be the EU, which is wee bit larger than the US. But overall Europe has far more deaths to COVID.
Wee bit, as in 50% larger? And 30% more deaths, while the yanks still clock in 1000 more daily? BTW the quoted figures say "Europe" which is much larger than the EU, so the 50% should probably read nearly double.
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Old May 20, 2020, 7:28 am
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Originally Posted by Dieuwer
It is becoming increasingly clear that "Europe is for the Europeans" with respect to having a "Summer Tourist Season". Foreigners need not apply.
Every American, Canadian, or Asian can pretty much forget visiting Europe this year. Advice is: take a vacation at home and support your local community. Europeans don't need and don't want your dollars, yen, or renminbi.
Europe isn’t a country. Why do you Americans keep insinuating that it is?

I am a British citizen and any country in the European continent is as foreign to me as Mexico is to you. Why would you think that Germany or Spain isn’t a foreign country to me? Spain is 1,000 miles away and speaks Spanish.

I don’t know why you would be offended with the current administration, either way. For all you know, they could keep the USA borders closed longer than the EU (and probably will).
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Old May 20, 2020, 7:30 am
  #178  
 
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Originally Posted by Sjoerd
And it is the same the other way around. Europeans are also not allowed to visit the USA, Canada and most of Asia. They too apparently don’t want our euros.
Or Pounds, or Francs.
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Old May 20, 2020, 7:34 am
  #179  
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Originally Posted by Owenc
Or Pounds, or Francs.
Lots of places will happily take CHFs!
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Old May 20, 2020, 8:07 am
  #180  
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Originally Posted by LondonElite
Lots of places will happily take CHFs!
They are willingly accepted in many places in my home town, where many Swiss cross the border to shop and fill up their cars. Well, they used to and will again.
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