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UK Government announces 14 day quarantine for arrivals

UK Government announces 14 day quarantine for arrivals

Old May 23, 20, 5:11 am
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Originally Posted by paulaf View Post
From the Telegraph:

"In a statement, Number 10 said: "The Government will continue to look at further options as we move forward and these will include air bridges – agreements between countries who both have low transmission rates to recognise each other’s departure screening measures for passengers and removing the need for quarantine measures for incoming passengers."
Which, from where we are now, is sensible and logical (apart from the 'removing the need' bit ).
If only I had enough faith left in our current government to actually be confident they might be both able to plan ahead on this and align decisions with an overall Covid-19 mitigation and new normal UK economy.
For the record, I see no problem at all with targeted and risk-based / screening driven quarantine. So 'removing the need' feels somewhat premature and dare-I-say playing to the audience.
Arguably and roughly, that might be up to 300 LHR arrivals a day based on a toppy 30,000 high-end of range for daily LHR arrivals and calibrated for c.1% requiring further checks or observation. That might then involve 0 to 3 days genuine quarantine for some cases.
Anyway, the point being something a whole lot more proportionate, and likely effective in Covid-19 control terms, than 100% of arrivals self-isolating for 14 days.
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Old May 23, 20, 5:19 am
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In international relations, one of the biggest dangers of all is to over-estimate your ability to dictate the terms of the agenda.

Right now, the French Government is fuming because (despite their unconvincing denial) the British Government had agreed that France would be exempt from the quarantine rules before going back on their word.

The French have now confirmed that if/when that measure is implemented by the UK, the French will thus reciprocate, but of course, in the same way that the British Government has put together a list of exemptions based on its own self-interest, the French would be fully entitled to do the same and that list of self-interested exemptions might not be the same. One option that is quite likely being full consideration and which would have the effect of an atomic bomb on the British economy would be not for the French to exempt freight drivers, which, in effect, would lead virtually any freight company to prefer not to deliver goods to the UK until the quarantine is over, and any other form of transport to massively increase their charges. By contrast, whilst that measure would have "a" cost for the French economy, that cost would be relatively minor.

Given that this new and internationally unwelcome British policy comes at the very same time that the Brexit negotiations are, yet again, extremely tense, I would not be altogether surprised if that option (which would symbolically mean: "don't think you can just take any unilateral decision you wish and that we will let you dictate the terms of the debate without reacting.
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Old May 23, 20, 5:20 am
  #543  
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Do we think that this vanishes before it has any meaningful effect? I mean, regardless of what's happening abroad, we're not going to be able to do much before lockdown ends. And even if it ends in England, doesn't mean (unfortunately) the rest of the UK will see it end. We're not going to be allowed to travel abroad whilst lockdown restrictions are in place (is whilst majority of businesses and gatherings are still banned)

By which time various parts of the world have also seen recovery and air bridges have been opened to Europe, US and other major UK travel destinations. Thus rendering the policy, which is basically to discourage travel either to or from the UK, useless.
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Old May 23, 20, 5:57 am
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Has WW said anything yet on it? Scuppers his plan to have a meaningful return in July.

Last edited by paulaf; May 23, 20 at 6:16 am
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Old May 23, 20, 8:07 am
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I moderate a group for North American parents of St. Andrews students. Obviously there is a great deal of concern over whether this will extend to September and if it does will the university open residence halls early to allow students to quarantine prior to the start of classes. There is also the concern raised earlier by others that current flight schedules are requiring annover night in London in order to get to Edinburgh. It is all a mess, but I assume the universities will lobby the government hard to allow students to return in some way as they cannot afford the loss of revenue.
(This is not a personal concern for me as my daughter stayed in St. Andrews when classes went remote in March and is on a year in industry next year which begins in July. Feeling very good that we did not bring her home!)
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Old May 23, 20, 8:07 am
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It appears as if this makes a LHR-LGW transfer impossible ? We are booked to MRU in early July, departing from CH, so if I read this right our only chance would be if BA consolidated operations at LHR.

[Political comment redacted by mod]
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Old May 23, 20, 8:26 am
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
In international relations, one of the biggest dangers of all is to over-estimate your ability to dictate the terms of the agenda.

Right now, the French Government is fuming because (despite their unconvincing denial) the British Government had agreed that France would be exempt from the quarantine rules before going back on their word.

The French have now confirmed that if/when that measure is implemented by the UK, the French will thus reciprocate, but of course, in the same way that the British Government has put together a list of exemptions based on its own self-interest, the French would be fully entitled to do the same and that list of self-interested exemptions might not be the same. One option that is quite likely being full consideration and which would have the effect of an atomic bomb on the British economy would be not for the French to exempt freight drivers, which, in effect, would lead virtually any freight company to prefer not to deliver goods to the UK until the quarantine is over, and any other form of transport to massively increase their charges. By contrast, whilst that measure would have "a" cost for the French economy, that cost would be relatively minor.

Given that this new and internationally unwelcome British policy comes at the very same time that the Brexit negotiations are, yet again, extremely tense, I would not be altogether surprised if that option (which would symbolically mean: "don't think you can just take any unilateral decision you wish and that we will let you dictate the terms of the debate without reacting.
Interesting.
Fake news and rumors abound, so I could be very wrong. But my understanding is that the French and British had agreed in principle to reciprocate. The EU made it known that it was unacceptable to differentiate between EU+ members unless based on strict health criteria. The French Government being the most pro-EU in the lot has its own problems in determining its own quarantine rules, but made the preliminary announcement that it might not quarantine any EU+ pax. Of course, France is expecting a reciprocal agreement, so the British rule is damaging.Just a big mess in international coordination.

I find it unlikely that the French would throw a tantrum because they feel that Britain reneged on some soft agreement..Many EU+ countries still impose a strict restriction to entry for French nationals. Still France seemed ready to allow their citizens to avoid French quarantine. And the new British quarantine does not discriminate against the French as it applies to anyone.

Whether such unenforceable self-quarantine makes any sense is another issue. It certainly works quite well in smaller places like SIngapore and Hong Kong, but England-wide?
Anyway,
I believe that the announcement effect is what matters and was the motivation. It will deter many UK tourists to go and come back from Holiday in Europe and that seems to be the objective, whether silly or founded..
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Last edited by brunos; May 23, 20 at 8:51 am
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Old May 23, 20, 9:07 am
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Originally Posted by brunos View Post
The EU made it known that it was unacceptable to differentiate between EU+ members unless based on strict health criteria.
I'll probably sound pedantic but the above is not quite correct (though in fairness, if one read the story for the British media, with their overwhelming illiteracy in EU law, accounts were indeed confusing) - and obviously, if it were, it would render the British quarantine protocol with its Irish exemption illegal, as would the current bilateral open border limited to specific countries (such as Germany-Austria). The EU will have told the UK that it would be illegal to discriminate based on citizenship. This means that had the UK made an exemption for France it would have had to apply to all people coming directly from France (as should be the case for all people coming directly from Ireland or the Channel islands regardless of nationality), which might arguably make enforcement of such a bilateral agreement harder but not impossible.

Originally Posted by brunos View Post
I find it unlikely that the French would throw a tantrum because they feel that Britain reneged on some soft agreement..
Well, to me, that would not be throwing a tantrum. As you point out, the end of the discussion between the UK and France mentioned reciprocity, and reciprocity does not mean that one country gets to decide all the details and the other to just accept them. The UK has imperious (indeed, one could say vital) reasons to exempt freight drivers. This exemption is not natural (plenty of other agreements do not create exemptions for freight drivers, or for that matter fruit pickers) and it will be complex and expensive to implement. The would be nothing intellectually shocking (or in my view tantrum like) in France reciprocating the quarantine as planned but including the exemption that makes sense to her rather than those which make sense to the UK (for instance, in the spirit of the Cummings news, exempting minors with parents living in the two countries, which would not be an absurd exception) and not the freight drivers one which also create complex loopholes in addition to making enforcement difficult. In fact, the only way I could imagine freight drivers being implicitly included is based on France using its current standard exception of "imperious family or professional reason", but that would then (not unreasonably) include a number of other categories well beyond what the UK is currently planning to exempt.
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Old May 23, 20, 9:29 am
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Originally Posted by Markie View Post
There are no departure inspection by UK Border Force
Interesting I didn't know that. So I'm scheduled to arrive into LHR from DFW on 17 July and go back 25 July. My passport won't be inspected upon return to see I obviously did not observe the 14 day quarantine?
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Old May 23, 20, 9:37 am
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Possibly of interest to others here, my daughter's friend drove from York to St Andrews today to pack up her flat (she had gone home for Spring Break when this started) and was not stopped. She will return home in a few days and I assume reverse journey should be as smooth.
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Old May 23, 20, 9:50 am
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Are there any news from UK gov.? any chance they will stop with a quarantine procedure?
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Old May 23, 20, 11:00 am
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France has retaliated, as expected: "Britons travelling to France will be forced to self-isolate for 14 days after UK refused to exempt French from new quarantine rules".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...tine-measures/
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Old May 23, 20, 11:15 am
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Originally Posted by Dieuwer View Post
France has retaliated, as expected: "Britons travelling to France will be forced to self-isolate for 14 days after UK refused to exempt French from new quarantine rules".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...tine-measures/
It's academic now. Once one of a pair of countries brings in this measure, it effectively kills off all leisure travel and most business travel between that country pair in both directions.
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Old May 23, 20, 11:43 am
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Originally Posted by The_Bouncer View Post
It's academic now. Once one of a pair of countries brings in this measure, it effectively kills off all leisure travel and most business travel between that country pair in both directions.
Yes, except the French quarantine is voluntary and doesn't apply to business trips under 5 days, among various other exceptions.
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Old May 23, 20, 11:56 am
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COVID-19: UK and French travel and quarantine measures

Travellers to France

In France, the following measures have been announced:

"For travellers arriving from European countries whose authorities have decided, in an uncoordinated fashion, to apply 14-day quarantine measures to travellers entering their territory from European countries, a voluntary 14-day quarantine period will be reciprocally requested. For example, from Monday 25 May onwards, travellers arriving from Spain, on flights only, will be asked to go into voluntary quarantine, because Spain imposed a quarantine system on 15 May for travellers arriving in Spain by plane. This applies to travellers of Spanish, French and all other nationalities. Likewise, travellers arriving from the United Kingdom, whatever their nationality, will be asked to go into a 14-day quarantine period when the British 14-day quarantine measure, announced this evening, actually comes into force."

https://uk.ambafrance.org/COVID-19-U...ntine-measures
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