Immunity passport [Merged thread]
Feb 1, 2021, 9:54 am
#76
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The Back Heathrow blog has come out in favour of Vaccine passports, as a way to "help us fly again."
They add on the addition of recent negatives tests. They trialled a digital "health passport" called CommonPass back in October.
The pandemic has brought the travel industry to its knees. While we are still early in the process of mass vaccination, making it compulsory to have a vaccine to board a plane or enter the country will not give the travel industry the boost it so desperately needs. Not in the short term anyway.
But if vaccine passports also carry information about a recent negative test or anti-body presence, then they can become part of an approach that can help revitalise the travel industry and begin and kick start economic recovery.
But if vaccine passports also carry information about a recent negative test or anti-body presence, then they can become part of an approach that can help revitalise the travel industry and begin and kick start economic recovery.
Feb 7, 2021, 8:25 am
#77
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 280
Thread has been dead for a while but I feel like there has been a lot more knowledge developed on COVID-19 lately and it's worth having this discussion again based on more current data.
... omeone who's had Covid, and having been tested during the illness with a PCR test and then had an IGG antibody test and thus fairly reasonably aware of my status, I find it a bit difficult to understand why I'm seen a risk when medical tests show that it's 99.9% likely that I'm actually not. It's also a bit weird to me that things like going outside the home are still seen as risky behavior on my part by a lot of people and also why I'm legally barred from activities that wouldn't be unsafe at all, like travel, socializing, etc.
I know immunity passports have negative aspects and in some ways create social tiers, but at the same time it does seems to support the idea that some people are immune and I wonder why we keep going against science and restrict people's activities for the sake of the individual's and society's safety when that doesn't benefit the individual or society in actuality.
Any thoughts?
... omeone who's had Covid, and having been tested during the illness with a PCR test and then had an IGG antibody test and thus fairly reasonably aware of my status, I find it a bit difficult to understand why I'm seen a risk when medical tests show that it's 99.9% likely that I'm actually not. It's also a bit weird to me that things like going outside the home are still seen as risky behavior on my part by a lot of people and also why I'm legally barred from activities that wouldn't be unsafe at all, like travel, socializing, etc.
I know immunity passports have negative aspects and in some ways create social tiers, but at the same time it does seems to support the idea that some people are immune and I wonder why we keep going against science and restrict people's activities for the sake of the individual's and society's safety when that doesn't benefit the individual or society in actuality.
Any thoughts?
Mar 4, 2021, 5:09 pm
#78
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 347
EU announces intention of COVID passport
To me, this significant and recent developement can sustain a thread of it's own, but if a mod feels otherwise and wishes to combine, I certainly understand.
Here are two articles:
https://milestomemories.com/covid-19...e=BoardingArea
https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021...ccine-passport
I'd love to hear some discussion of this. To my view, it's a positive. I understand the scientific jury still hasn't released a conclusive stance on the protection offered by the various vaccines - at the same time, this *appears* to be a good short/mid term path. I'm hoping it does come to fruition, is widely adopted (the article hints even outside the EU), and US residents can somehow prove their vaccination status and be included.
Here are two articles:
https://milestomemories.com/covid-19...e=BoardingArea
https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021...ccine-passport
I'd love to hear some discussion of this. To my view, it's a positive. I understand the scientific jury still hasn't released a conclusive stance on the protection offered by the various vaccines - at the same time, this *appears* to be a good short/mid term path. I'm hoping it does come to fruition, is widely adopted (the article hints even outside the EU), and US residents can somehow prove their vaccination status and be included.
Mar 4, 2021, 5:22 pm
#79
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There are two important things to point out:
1. This is a common framework for the proof of vaccination, not a proposal of uniform border rules for vaccinated passengers. The idea is essentially that if a proof of vaccination is needed at some point (not only for travel), there should be an unified European document for it.
2. This is mostly pushed by southern states that rely heavily on tourism. These states don't suggest they will require vaccinations for entry themselves, but they do hope vaccination passports will make it easier for people to return home after a holiday. Whether that actually will be the case remains to be seen, some large states such as Germany are leaning against exceptions for vaccinated people.
1. This is a common framework for the proof of vaccination, not a proposal of uniform border rules for vaccinated passengers. The idea is essentially that if a proof of vaccination is needed at some point (not only for travel), there should be an unified European document for it.
2. This is mostly pushed by southern states that rely heavily on tourism. These states don't suggest they will require vaccinations for entry themselves, but they do hope vaccination passports will make it easier for people to return home after a holiday. Whether that actually will be the case remains to be seen, some large states such as Germany are leaning against exceptions for vaccinated people.
Mar 4, 2021, 5:32 pm
#80
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I think this would be a positive step in the right direction considering the confusing mix of restrictions throughout the world, but I would have to argue that there would have to be an agreed to standard on the formatting and technology used because I know countries like to create their own standards and go it alone. I think international travel will be haphazard for the next 1-2 years while travelers sort through the different requirements, types of travel possible (transit, personal hardship, leisure/recreational etc..) , and different types of personal situations like with infants/small children/disabled/etc....
Quarantining and pre-testing, I don't think are sustainable in the long run.
My big concern is with the United States with its many points of distribution for the covid 19 vaccine and the types of approved vaccines.And yet, it its suggested in a another thread that we try to get the yellow cards signed off on since this, has historically been the standard of proof for vaccinations. I'm not sure this holds true for today and the future, but I'm not sure how we can conclusively prove that we were vaccinated.
Quarantining and pre-testing, I don't think are sustainable in the long run.
My big concern is with the United States with its many points of distribution for the covid 19 vaccine and the types of approved vaccines.And yet, it its suggested in a another thread that we try to get the yellow cards signed off on since this, has historically been the standard of proof for vaccinations. I'm not sure this holds true for today and the future, but I'm not sure how we can conclusively prove that we were vaccinated.
Last edited by i0wnj00; Mar 4, 2021 at 5:38 pm
Mar 4, 2021, 5:55 pm
#81
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: LAX
Posts: 3,267
I don't see an advantage for southern European countries to go along with the kind of limited scheme that richer, vaccine reluctant countries like France (50% unwilling to get a covid vaccine) and Germany (40% unwilling to get a covid vaccine) would engineer. Realistically, aren't French and German tourists going to be traveling to Southern Europe more or less no matter what by mid-summer? Southern European countries like Italy and Spain have very high rates of vaccine acceptance (like 95% for Spain), so what's the value for them in a limited, EU-only vaccine passport?
If Southern European countries buy into the limited vaccine passport scheme, don't they screw themselves politically by forfeiting the legitimacy of a vaccine passport for international travelers? Ie, if southern Europe accepts the limited EU only vaccine passport, and then they want to open to vaccinated international travelers too, then France and Germany can say "hey look, we had this discussion and you said you were good with an EU only passport. So no dice."
If Southern European countries buy into the limited vaccine passport scheme, don't they screw themselves politically by forfeiting the legitimacy of a vaccine passport for international travelers? Ie, if southern Europe accepts the limited EU only vaccine passport, and then they want to open to vaccinated international travelers too, then France and Germany can say "hey look, we had this discussion and you said you were good with an EU only passport. So no dice."
Mar 4, 2021, 9:35 pm
#82
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Right now, nonessential travel is very difficult to nearly impossible throughout much of the EU, and absent a measure such as a COVID passport it can easily stay that way through the summer. Germany and France have zero appetite for a repeat of last summer's sh*tshow, when Southern European hot spots visited by their residents became COVID superspreader hubs. Spain and Greece will sign on because 1) the Germans and French have the money and tourist market base, and 2) the alternative will be a very painful summer with minimal tourists from anywhere.
Mar 4, 2021, 9:42 pm
#83
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,752
The expectation is that either you show you have been vaccinated or you show a negative PCR test (depending on the infection rate of the country you are coming from). Both Greece and Cyprus have already agreed this with Israel, so I expect to see it happen this summer.
https://news.gtp.gr/2021/03/03/greec...cine-passport/
At the start I guess there will be different national certificates, with standardization within the EU a first step towards global standardization.
https://news.gtp.gr/2021/03/03/greec...cine-passport/
At the start I guess there will be different national certificates, with standardization within the EU a first step towards global standardization.
Mar 5, 2021, 12:40 am
#84
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I definitely hope enough countries have enough common sense to follow suit.
Mar 5, 2021, 1:42 am
#85
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Right now, nonessential travel is very difficult to nearly impossible throughout much of the EU, and absent a measure such as a COVID passport it can easily stay that way through the summer. Germany and France have zero appetite for a repeat of last summer's sh*tshow, when Southern European hot spots visited by their residents became COVID superspreader hubs. Spain and Greece will sign on because 1) the Germans and French have the money and tourist market base, and 2) the alternative will be a very painful summer with minimal tourists from anywhere.
But I am optimistic that with vaccinations going forward, there will be very few restrictions on internal movement within the EU by the autumn at latest.
Last edited by the810; Mar 5, 2021 at 5:23 am
Mar 5, 2021, 2:48 am
#86
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To me, this significant and recent developement can sustain a thread of it's own, but if a mod feels otherwise and wishes to combine, I certainly understand.
Here are two articles:
https://milestomemories.com/covid-19...e=BoardingArea
https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021...ccine-passport
I'd love to hear some discussion of this. To my view, it's a positive. I understand the scientific jury still hasn't released a conclusive stance on the protection offered by the various vaccines - at the same time, this *appears* to be a good short/mid term path. I'm hoping it does come to fruition, is widely adopted (the article hints even outside the EU), and US residents can somehow prove their vaccination status and be included.
Here are two articles:
https://milestomemories.com/covid-19...e=BoardingArea
https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021...ccine-passport
I'd love to hear some discussion of this. To my view, it's a positive. I understand the scientific jury still hasn't released a conclusive stance on the protection offered by the various vaccines - at the same time, this *appears* to be a good short/mid term path. I'm hoping it does come to fruition, is widely adopted (the article hints even outside the EU), and US residents can somehow prove their vaccination status and be included.
Mar 5, 2021, 7:46 am
#87
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Please correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t you bring China, Taiwan, Singapore, HK, Korea’s response to Covid as an example how state should be dealing with the Covid?
Mar 5, 2021, 8:26 am
#88
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Whether any given example is a good or bad example doesn't necessarily make it an example recommended for copying. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that institution of an infrastructure for one purpose need not mean it will be limited to just the highlighted purpose in the hear and now.
Mar 5, 2021, 8:41 am
#89
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Surely countries should be recording which citizens have been vaccinated anyway, so what difference does the vaccine passport make. Can you give an example of how it could be abused?
Mar 5, 2021, 8:54 am
#90
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I don't see the link - I cannot see any difference between a normal passport or a driving license and this vaccine passport? Both are nationally issued documents where countries have agreed a level of international standardization and mutual acceptance.
Surely countries should be recording which citizens have been vaccinated anyway, so what difference does the vaccine passport make. Can you give an example of how it could be abused?
Surely countries should be recording which citizens have been vaccinated anyway, so what difference does the vaccine passport make. Can you give an example of how it could be abused?