Dublin_rfk

???
In the past 12 months I have taken @100 flights. Long hauls, short hauls, packed to the last seat as well as a couple with more FAs than passengers. To places like TPE, NRT, FRA, and FCO early on as well as CUN, SFO, LAX, EWR, DEN, and IAH, and let me tell you that the scariest place(s) I’ve been was the ER after eating poorly prepared take out because the local government doesn’t allow sit down dining or being hit by a reckless driver. As a whole the people flying are the healthiest people you will come across. Yes there will always be THAT person in the airport and possibly on your flight. The one sneezing and coughing and looking like they should not be out of bed, but if you are out and about you will / could be near dozens of people who are not as sick and never know it. Everyone has to make their own decisions as to what is an acceptable risk.
For the record I’m in my 60s, I wear PPE and I interact with people everyday and I’m working and vacationing because I want to.

Sjoerd

Nope, it is also discouraging domestic movements: restaurants are closed, bars are closed, museums are closed, non-essential shops are closed, amusement parks are closed, hotels are open for sleeping only (not even room service is allowed).
What Rutte was hinting at were those people that escape to Brazil or Mexico or whatever country is open for us to have a holiday like it is 2019. And thereby increasing the risk of spreading Covid.

the810

When I'm out and about I can keep my distance. In a plane, I can't.

You don't get infected by walking around someone in a store or on the street. You get infected by spending a lot of time close to an infected person. The fact that they don't cough doesn't change much.

But going to Mexico poses no extra danger compared to travel within NL. The remark about "holiday abroad" is not appropriate and demonising of "foreign" travel needs to stop.

Also, people who escape to Mexico and Brazil usually don't have an intention to return soon.

GUWonder

Of the EUropeans whom I have personally known to have gone to Mexico, most of them are back in Europe within a couple of weeks (at most). The segment of non-Latinx-origin people who relocate temporarily to Mexico is a minority of the American and EUropean traffic hitting up Mexican resort areas during this pandemic.

Sjoerd

Of course traveling to another country for a holiday poses an additional danger: the travellers will meet many people that they otherwise wouldn’t have met. At home, as a result of government measures, there are very few opportunities to meet and mix with others.

Most people who travel far come back after 2, 3 or 4 weeks.

the810

But the same applies to travelling within the country for a holiday. I don't mind Rutte's advice against holiday-making as much as his advice specifically about holiday abroad. There is no difference between going on a holiday in The Netherlands, Germany or Mexico.

GUWonder

Taking a vacation abroad even with social distancing at the destination is apparently a concern for various governments since such travel has consequences on the pace of different strains of the virus spreading and what that means with virus development (and potentially at some point even with regard to vaccine effectiveness). The recent weeks' travel bans directed at the UK, directed at South Africa, and (to a much lesser extent) directed at Denmark have been done with mention of concerns about new virus strains being spread by travel from abroad.

Traveling abroad has actually gotten harder to do in recent weeks than it was for most of the pandemic period in 2020. That speaks volumes about governments' concerns about the virus-spreading arising from travel abroad.

Sjoerd

You must have missed the part in which I wrote that almost everything is closed in NL so it is almost impossible to take a domestic holiday.

Dublin_rfk

Welcome to the blue states of America. Where it's come on in we are open 'cough cough' to up to 10% of capacity. Doesn't everyone want to stay in a hotel that offers a cold bag of snacks breakfast?

Smiley90

Oh no the horror! COVID-protocols!

pinniped

A key difference with Mexico is that a huge number of travelers go there specifically to party. It's the exact opposite of social distancing.

Dublin_rfk

We are being told by politicians who haven't missed a paycheck or a salon visit or a meal to "Follow the Science!"
The only science I can see is Voodoo!
Close the restaurants for indoor dining even when there is just above ZERO proof of any virus transmission in restaurants.
Who can stay in a hotel with a working kitchen and pool/weight room and drive 10 minutes and cross an invisible line and the same hotel chain is barred from serving food and opening the pool/weight room.

Dublin_rfk

That 'huge' number of vacationers is so small that in some locations Cancun for one, that a booming party is 4 people!

pinniped

I don't believe restaurants should be closed, but a LOT of our local contact tracing has pretty conclusively led back to bars and restaurants.

As for crossing an invisible line and getting different rules, that's because the legal empowerment, staffing, and funding for health departments and inspections is often at the city or county level. Cities are going to do what they think is best for their own economies and healthcare capacity, so if two cities come up with different answers I'm not sure what you expect to be done. Maybe go to the city council meeting of the one who set rules you don't like? Probably helps if you're a resident of that city.

pinniped

Or, this thing, just south of Cancun. (In any other year, it actually sounds like a pretty dope party.)

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-tu...spreader-event