GUWonder

It will be interesting to see if the North American ski pass issuers think that the current, previous and prospective pass holders are such a captive audience for skiing (and therefore will keep buying one pass or another from them or a “competitor”) that they don’t have a whole to gain from offering much of any compensation to the passholders for this situation.

I think they really should consider people like you and offer a full refund to those who didn’t use it at all (and otherwise could have if not for this virus situation). The ski resorts got burned financially too, but most people are hurting financially from this situation.

bzman

I'm sure many of you got the same email I received from Vail/Epic on March 25th from Kirsten Lynch, their Chief Marketing Officer. Key statement in there is:With everything going on, that sounds reasonable.

TerryK

I concur. My only gripe is that I never got that email and had to learn this from FT. Yes, I've checked my spam folder.

rny321

It's just speculation, but I believe at least part of the reason for waiting until the end of April to answer questions about pass extensions or refunds is to allow time to see how pass sales are going for next year. If pass sales are poor or the mix of customers isn't what the companies are hoping for, I would expect more leniency for current pass holders. Pass will almost always make sense for locals who ski large numbers of days per year and may not need to stay at company properties, but those of us who may only ski one week per year the decision is not so simple.

Dougy Giro

I fly over from the UK each winter - and even if I was only there a week it would be a simple decision to buy the Epic pass.

This winter I managed 28 days on the slopes, although my 9 days from next week have been cancelled in Whistler (my daughter lives there currently hence so many trips to Whistler and 3 weeks in Colorado)

rny321

For someone that has a single one week ski trip per year, the Epic Day Pass may be a better option than the Epic Pass or the Epic Local Pass. Depending on when and where one skis, multi-day lift tickets may make be a better choice than purchasing a pass this April.

If I was skiing in late April at Whistler, I would consider the spring 10-day ticket for 299 CAD. Also, the 5 of 8 day late season tickets were available for 615 CAD. Unlike the Epic passes which would need to purchased long before the ski season starts, one can wait to buy lift tickets until closer to the travel dates. However prudent, once the risk of mountain closure has been introduced into the mix, the decision to buy Epic Passes becomes less compelling for the infrequent skier.

quirrow

For Epic Pass users like you, I certainly hope Vail would refund you the cost. Or at least maybe extend your Pass for the next season. I am pretty sure Vail could see the number of visits based on the Pass being scanned at their resorts.

For skiers who have used a pass more than say 20 days, I am not sure why there should be partial refunds since most passes have a disclaimer on validity until resort closes. At this point, any action they would have is probably out of goodwill.

evergrn

I'm worried about the impact of Coronavirus on this upcoming skiing season.
I ski BC, UT, CO, WA state, Jpn.
Of course, nobody knows what will happen. But I'd like to hear everyone's thought process about the likelihood of ski season. Also, what folks are doing as far as locking in early rates on ski passes vs waiting.

Some thoughts/concerns I have:
-- There will be no vaccine until perhaps around or after the end of next ski season.
-- There's no guarantee that such vaccine will be fully effective against this virus.
-- If Coronavirus is still rampant (or dissipates this summer but returns this winter), then I would think there'll be no skiing next season.
-- If Coronavirus is mostly under control but with lingering concerns, then large portion of the economy will have opened back up but with social distancing still in effect. In such setting, skiing might be an industry that continues to be shut out because of problems with gondola, cafeterias and sniffling, not to mention anticipated difficulties with lift queue management.
-- If vaccine is not totally effective, this could go on past the next ski season even into the one after.
-- If skiing were allowed to reopen with social distancing in effect, then wouldn't that mean tight cap on ticket sales? And wouldn't you then anticipate much higher day pass prices and difficulty reserving the day you'd like to ski?
-- Thinking about jumping on Epic Local Pass now. The current Vail Resort pass prices are already higher than what they were last Sept/Oct. And I wonder if the next price jump (whenever that may be) could be be steeper than usual because 1).they need to recoup the losses from last season; 2).they want to prepare for another potential season interruption; 3).they may be forced into capping day ticket sales as pondered above.
-- Who knows if Vail/Ikon will refund if there's no ski season next year.
-- How much longer can most independent mountains and even Alterra/Vail survive this?

bzman

OK, Folks, the results are in. Vail Resorts announced their pass program yesterday, which will be a sliding scale of credits for next years passes, based on usage this year. If you did not use your pass this year, you can apply 80% of it's value as a credit to 20/21 season, going down to a 20% credit if you used it five or more times.Link: http://www.epicpass.com/info/2019-20...er-credit.aspx

maplearrbee

Sharing some intel from an ongoing battle against Vail Inc. to refund our Whistler Edge cards.

Long post, but in a nutshell, despite Vail's claims that refunds are "impossible", 2019-20 pass holders products have several solid options to get their money back; all based on the closure being a decision solely by them to voluntarily close resorts and deny the services you purchased.

Your mileage may vary (i.e. Epic season pass, US residents, etc). Also a personal ethical call - maybe closing was a necessary evil, but keeping your money isn't. This is not some mom and pop ski hill, but a massive corporation that consistently prioritizes its interests and shareholders over its customers and communities. Though if you think the credit is enough or want to subsidize Vail's Covid "losses" (notwithstanding they didn't pay staff or operations expesnes for days you couldn't ski)...good on ya, I guess. Just hope you thought about what the upcoming season could look like (https://carryonqueen.com/2020-foresi...er-ski-season/)

We bought our Edge passes in April 2019 (2 days for my wife + 5 for me = $685.81), and were actually at Whistler when they closed on March 13 2020, ruining a planned ski week.

We tried asking for refunds at the ticket counter that day - flatly denied, they asked us to contact Guest Services. Which we did later in March - and were told a decision would be made on refunds in late April.

So we tried again in late April - radio silence.

Finally in mid-May, we got an email from Vail offering...a partial credit; only valid for an equal or higher price pass; for the next season; along with a lot of BS marketing speak about "honouring their customers".

Except we're expecting a baby and not skiing next season, so this was totally useless. We again asked for a refund - twice - but were ignored.

Fine, if that's how Vail wants to "honour" multi-decade customers who have even worked for their resort, game on.

So first off, if you accepted their credit and put down a deposit for next season, stop reading. You gave up all rights to a refund or future legal action, thanks to slimy lawyer fine print you probably didn't read.

Option 1 (if not open to us Canucks) is the class action filed against Vail by Paynter Law (https://www.paynterlaw.com/ski-pass-lawyer). Never hurts to sign up.

Option 2 is to file a complaint with your local consumer protection agency. Consumer Protection BC confirmed that the closure would be considered a material change in pass terms and conditions, which overrides the "non-refundable" clause. Basically, they broke their own rules, so they no longer apply.

CPBC also noted "no refund" clauses are invalid anytime a merchant declines to provide a pre-paid good or service for reasons within its control - i.e. a bad snow year doesn't count, fair enough.

Option 3 - file a credit card dispute / chargeback. Maybe not as sexcy as a lawsuit or feel-good as consumer advocacy. But also more likely to get your money back faster. Plus there's an extra bonus - merchants are penalized and can even be dropped by a card processor for excessive chargebacks. There's speculation this is why airlines are suddenly offering COVID ticket refunds, after recent media attention suggested chargebacks.

Of course Vail lawyers and execs know this, and worked with their marketing teams on language to make people think refunds are impossible, plus cooking up the "credit" scheme and manipulative wording to make it look like they care about more than the corporate bottom line. But they don't and they won't..unless enough of us file chargebacks, and they decide it's safer to voluntarily offer refunds, helping all your fellow snow lovers.

It's not always easy though...our card company (Capital One) put up a fight at first and said the no refunds clause meant we couldn't dispute. Fortunately Mastercard itself stepped in, recently issuing its "Dispute Resolution Management During COVID-19".

It's pretty thick read, so here are some key excerpts:

"Merchants are ultimately responsible for issuing a refund to the cardholder when the merchant has cancelled the service. Merchants can offer a credit or voucher for future use if that is acceptable to the cardholder, but should process a refund promptly if the cardholder declines the merchant’s offer." (strike one)

"There is a chargeback right when services are not provided, including when they are cancelled by a merchant due to government restrictions, insolvency or other exceptional circumstances, unless the merchant has a right to provide the cardholder with reasonable alternatives based on the terms and conditions properly disclosed to the cardholder at the time purchase, or based on applicable government legislation or regulation." (credits were never part of their terms and conditions, so you don't have to accept it)

"Reasonable alternatives for future services cannot be imposed on the cardholder in lieu of a refund..." (stick that credit where the sun don't shine)

"There is no chargeback right if the merchant and cardholder had reached an amicable solution where the cardholder accepted the reasonable alternative and the reasonable alternative is usable as described, even if the original reservation was refundable." (why accepting their credit means you're stuck)

Some other chargeback advice...you do need to ask Vail for a refund first (good luck). Then, if a response doesn't come within 15 days or is rebuffed, customers can call the payment card issuer and request a chargeback on the grounds that services they paid for were not rendered.

In terms of timing, it's kind of short too...depending on your card, you generally have to file the dispute within 120 calendar days of the original transaction date OR 120 calendar days from the last date that you expected to receive the merchandise or services (up to a maximum of 540 days from the transaction date). So given mid-March closures, that only gives you until mid-July.

Oh and if your card company whines, stick to your guns...you can insist on a chargeback process even if they suggest the matter is between you and Vail, or that the tickets were non-refundable...latter is NOT legally enforaceable when you are denied a service on voluntary grounds, any more than the language on your lift tickets most people thinks prevents a lawsuit in case of injury.

And if your bank still refuses, stick it to them too via a complaint to their Ombudsperson, the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada, or whatever American equivalent protects consumers.

Fight the power.