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USA halts entry of visitors who’ve been in UK, Ireland, Schengen countries

Old Mar 11, 2020, 8:19 pm
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Last edit by: NewbieRunner
US Department of Homeland Security Announcement: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11/...l-proclamation
Whitehouse.gov Proclamation (more detail): https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/proclamation-suspension-entry-immigrants-nonimmigrants-certain-additional-persons-pose-risk-transmitting-2019-novel-coronavirus/

Sec. 5. Effective Date. This proclamation is effective at 11:59 p.m. eastern daylight time on March 13, 2020. This proclamation does not apply to persons aboard a flight scheduled to arrive in the United States that departed prior to 11:59 p.m. eastern daylight time on March 13, 2020.
Section 1. Suspension and Limitation on Entry. The entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of all aliens who were physically present within the Schengen Area during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States is hereby suspended and limited subject to section 2 of this proclamation.

For purposes of this proclamation, the Schengen Area comprises 26 European states: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland

Release Date:
March 11, 2020(WASHINGTON) Today President Donald J. Trump signed a Presidential Proclamation, which suspends the entry of most foreign nationals who have been in certain European countries at any point during the 14 days prior to their scheduled arrival to the United States. These countries, known as the Schengen Area, include: Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, and Switzerland. This does not apply to legal permanent residents, (generally) immediate family members of U.S. citizens, and other individuals who are identified in the proclamation.

Won't affect lawful permanent resident, spouse of US citizen/PR, .... (see list of exceptions below, taken from whitehouse.gov link above)
Sec. 2. Scope of Suspension and Limitation on Entry.

(a) Section 1 of this proclamation shall not apply to:

(i) any lawful permanent resident of the United States;

(ii) any alien who is the spouse of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident;

(iii) any alien who is the parent or legal guardian of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that the U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident is unmarried and under the age of 21;

(iv) any alien who is the sibling of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, provided that both are unmarried and under the age of 21;

(v) any alien who is the child, foster child, or ward of a U.S. citizen or lawful permanent resident, or who is a prospective adoptee seeking to enter the United States pursuant to the IR-4 or IH-4 visa classifications;

(vi) any alien traveling at the invitation of the United States Government for a purpose related to containment or mitigation of the virus;

(vii) any alien traveling as a nonimmigrant pursuant to a C-1, D, or C-1/D nonimmigrant visa as a crewmember or any alien otherwise traveling to the United States as air or sea crew;

(viii) any alien

(A) seeking entry into or transiting the United States pursuant to one of the following visas: A-1, A-2, C-2, C-3 (as a foreign government official or immediate family member of an official), E-1 (as an employee of TECRO or TECO or the employee’s immediate family members), G-1, G-2, G-3, G-4, NATO-1 through NATO-4, or NATO-6 (or seeking to enter as a nonimmigrant in one of those NATO categories); or

(B) whose travel falls within the scope of section 11 of the United Nations Headquarters Agreement;

(ix) any alien whose entry would not pose a significant risk of introducing, transmitting, or spreading the virus, as determined by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, through the CDC Director or his designee;

(x) any alien whose entry would further important United States law enforcement objectives, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their respective designees, based on a recommendation of the Attorney General or his designee;

(xi) any alien whose entry would be in the national interest, as determined by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Homeland Security, or their designees; or

(xii) members of the U.S. Armed Forces and spouses and children of members of the U.S. Armed Forces.

(b) Nothing in this proclamation shall be construed to affect any individual’s eligibility for asylum, withholding of removal, or protection under the regulations issued pursuant to the legislation implementing the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, consistent with the laws and regulations of the United States.
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USA halts entry of visitors who’ve been in UK, Ireland, Schengen countries

 
Old Apr 26, 2021, 2:55 pm
  #1456  
 
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Originally Posted by warakorn
Getting back to the US. I am pretty certain that the ban will be lifted before 2022.
There are three points why I am cautious.
- Biden at least follows (or pretends to follow) science. It is well know that travel spreads the virus. And the protection from vaccines is not yet proven. So Biden wants to see clear-cut data that vaccines are working. The stats from Israel, the UK are encouraging, but not yet sufficient.
- Biden is under a lot of pressure from the border crisis. He is considered weak on immigration. That weakness will be exploited by the MAGA movements and Republicans in the midterms in 18 months. So Biden is esp. reluctant to lift existing border restrictions. He won't risk his domestic agenda, just to do a favour to Europeans.
- A lifting of the ban might be shortlived. Looking at Finland in the summer of 2020. It opened to EU citizens in early July, but closed the border again in mid-July. With the variant scare around the world, there is the potential that the ban could be reinstated. Politicians are nervous. And once Fox News commentators starting to demand closing the border to Europe -> Biden is under pressure again. That means for us (the FT community) -> Once the ban is lifted and you want to fly to the US. Better be quick and do not book flights more than 1 month in advance.

I do tend to agree with many of the political points but Fox News would be doing a full 180 turn considering many Republicans are on there talking about civil liberties and the desire for freedom but they may revert quickly if its for a dig at Biden and, of course, ratings.

However we are in a different position from last year with vaccines and they are proving to be working in tackling most of the variants at the moment. Let's hope that continues.

It's like looking through a crystal ball at the moment. I see tonight from our side in the UK that Grant Shapps has mentioned something about a system being in place by June 28th for travel between UK, France, USA, Italy (and other G7) and this is to be discussed during the G7 on June 11-13. I think it's to develop a common framework of allowing Vaccinated passengers, those with negative tests and antibodies to travel.
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Last edited by NewbieRunner; Apr 26, 2021 at 4:50 pm Reason: Conform with edited version of quote
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 7:06 am
  #1457  
 
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Originally Posted by warakorn
Well, we have different opinions on that.



I concur.


And there is no risk in contracting the virus in the US? What kind of logic is that? You are willing to fly from Europe to the US. But you are not willing to go via a third country because of fear of contracting a virus? Weird!


... but a trip from Europe to the US is affordable then? Weird!

Anyway, maybe it's sounds offensive. But honestly speaking, the examples you are mentioning here make little sense in my eyes.

This is borderline trolling. You honestly don't see the logic of people not wanting to risk getting infected in Mexico, being then stuck there for another minimum of 14 days, with extra expenses added?

I would say that yes, flying directly to the US and maybe staying with their loved ones is way more affordable than having to spend extra money on flight and accommodation. Money which they might not have.
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 7:23 am
  #1458  
 
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It's not condescending. Most people, playing "drama queen" on the Schengen Travel Ban, in my eyes are just dishonest. The Travel Ban is an inconvenience, but not a drama.
It is a drama to those without sufficient funds or time to play silly games to get around the ban

When it comes to seeing a loved one again -> the parents are always free to fly back to Germany to see her daughter.
You cannot fly into Germany to see your family unless you are resident, and if you are resident in the US you cant be in Germany.

Parents of children, who are living in the US with a lawful residence status, are generally allowed to enter the US.
You would need to argue that at an embassy, they are closed.

And there is no risk in contracting the virus in the US? What kind of logic is that? You are willing to fly from Europe to the US. But you are not willing to go via a third country because of fear of contracting a virus? Weird!
By transiting in a third country with higher infection rates that risk is increasing, needlessly

I don't think a bi-national relationship has much chance of suceeding if one party doesn't want to leave the US.
Yes, if one partner has to care for an elderly parent and cannot leave home, yes I understand.
Of course they want to travel, they are being stopped from travelling !

... but a trip from Europe to the US is affordable then? Weird!

Anyway, maybe it's sounds offensive. But honestly speaking, the examples you are mentioning here make little sense in my eyes.
That's been answered, no comparison.

You are arguing for the sake of it

You may not be affected but many thousands are.

Last edited by Howmuch; Apr 27, 2021 at 7:32 am
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 7:27 am
  #1459  
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Originally Posted by Howmuch
It is a drama to those without sufficient funds or time to play silly games to get around the ban

You cannot fly into Germany to see your family unless you are resident, and if you are resident in the US
Borders can always be closed to certain residents. I point this out because no non-citizen has some God-given right to enter another country.

As to your second point, a citizen can always enter Germany, regardless of their residency.
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 7:35 am
  #1460  
 
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Originally Posted by LondonElite
Borders can always be closed to certain residents. I point this out because no non-citizen has some God-given right to enter another country.

As to your second point, a citizen can always enter Germany, regardless of their residency.
Most of Europe which I assume is also Germany are only letting residents home, they don't give a stuff if you are a citizen, of course you could lie but that isn't a good idea with immigration.
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 7:59 am
  #1461  
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This is incorrect. If you are a German citizen you can currently enter Germany regardless or not of residency.
https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/f...trol-list.html
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 8:09 am
  #1462  
 
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Originally Posted by fransknorge
This is incorrect. If you are a German citizen you can currently enter Germany regardless or not of residency.
https://www.bmi.bund.de/SharedDocs/f...trol-list.html

This is the first time I've read this, I know resident is always the term and reason for entry into the EU during the pandemic, I stand corrected.

So by this logic any person with US / EU dual citizenship are exempt from the travel ban ?
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 8:16 am
  #1463  
 
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Of course. There's no way any EU country would dare ban its own citizen from entry. PCR yes, quarantine yes, but blanket ban would be plain unconstitutional.
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 8:43 am
  #1464  
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Originally Posted by Howmuch
Most of Europe which I assume is also Germany are only letting residents home, they don't give a stuff if you are a citizen, of course you could lie but that isn't a good idea with immigration.
The above is false, and I’m curious where you got hooked to that false narrative.

The fact is that all EUropean and Schengen countries have a legal obligation to grant admission to their own citizens arriving at the ports of entry to their own country of citizenship, regardless of where the citizen has residence. And they are adhering to their legal obligations to not deny admission to recognized citizens of their own country when the citizens are at the port of entry to their own country of citizenship. Including in the case of US dual-citizens with citizenship in an EU/Schengen country.
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 8:46 am
  #1465  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
The above is false, and I’m curious where you got hooked to that false narrative.

The fact is that all EUropean and Schengen countries have a legal obligation to grant admission to their own citizens arriving at the ports of entry to their own country of citizenship, regardless of where the citizen has residence. And they are adhering to their legal obligations to not deny admission to recognized citizens of their own country when the citizens are at the port of entry to their own country of citizenship.
We have established this further up and I accept I was wrong on that particular point

My question then is

So by this logic any person with US / EU dual citizenship are exempt from the travel ban ?
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 8:51 am
  #1466  
 
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Originally Posted by Howmuch
Spend five minutes reading a few of these desperate peoples posts #LoveIsNotTourism its easier to get into the US now via the southern border without any papers than it is for most Europeans with a valid visa.
Yes you are correct, I can see that certainly the pandemic is having an impact on people that live on different continents.

Originally Posted by Howmuch
This is the first time I've read this, I know resident is always the term and reason for entry into the EU during the pandemic, I stand corrected.

So by this logic any person with US / EU dual citizenship are exempt from the travel ban ?
Yes - plus their family members, partners etc. You are allowed to enter Germany if:
- You are an EEA or Swiss national (i.e. you have a European passport)
- You are EEA or Swiss resident (i.e. you have a non European passport but you live in Europe).
- You are a family member of a EEA or Swiss citizen
- You are a family member of a German resident
- You are an unmarried partner of a German resident

Plus plenty of the normal exceptions such as military, students, seamen etc, as well as the schengen defined safe countries (Thailand, Aus, Korea etc).

Source: https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/world.php
.
If the US were to apply the same exceptions then a lot of the #LoveIsNotTourism problems would be solved. Hopefully it happens soon.
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 8:58 am
  #1467  
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You cannot fly into Germany to see your family unless you are resident, and if you are resident in the US you cant be in Germany.
Most of Europe which I assume is also Germany are only letting residents home, they don't give a stuff if you are a citizen, of course you could lie but that isn't a good idea with immigration.
Where am I? And you guys are calling me "trolling"?
This is the most ridiculous thing (German citizens were not allowed to enter Germany without residence) I have read on FT for a long time.

So by this logic any person with US / EU dual citizenship are exempt from the travel ban ?
Well, a person with a German and US passport can travel directly between both countries without any problems (just the test/quarantine requirements have to be met).

Last edited by warakorn; Apr 27, 2021 at 9:25 am
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 9:00 am
  #1468  
 
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Originally Posted by 8420PR
Yes you are correct, I can see that certainly the pandemic is having an impact on people that live on different continents.


Yes - plus their family members, partners etc. You are allowed to enter Germany if:
- You are an EEA or Swiss national (i.e. you have a European passport)
- You are EEA or Swiss resident (i.e. you have a non European passport but you live in Europe).
- You are a family member of a EEA or Swiss citizen
- You are a family member of a German resident
- You are an unmarried partner of a German resident

Plus plenty of the normal exceptions such as military, students, seamen etc, as well as the schengen defined safe countries (Thailand, Aus, Korea etc).

Source: https://www.iatatravelcentre.com/world.php
.
If the US were to apply the same exceptions then a lot of the #LoveIsNotTourism problems would be solved. Hopefully it happens soon.

It´s surprising the US is less sympathetic to family's and couples in the current pandemic than the EU.

I read a post earlier from some girl which puts their plight it in perspective

Every morning I just wake up sad as f%&k, sometimes anxious, but mostly hopeless and empty. With a heavy heart but no one I can talk to. They just don’t get it. I was already kinda lonely pre covid, but this is worse than anything. I’m not living the same pandemic as them.
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 9:43 am
  #1469  
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Originally Posted by Howmuch
Most of Europe which I assume is also Germany are only letting residents home, they don't give a stuff if you are a citizen, of course you could lie but that isn't a good idea with immigration.
That is simply incorrect. You are misinformed.

Originally Posted by Howmuch
This is the first time I've read this, I know resident is always the term and reason for entry into the EU during the pandemic, I stand corrected.

So by this logic any person with US / EU dual citizenship are exempt from the travel ban ?
If you are a dual US / German national, for example, you can freely enter both countries, even if you live in Japan.

Last edited by NewbieRunner; Apr 27, 2021 at 10:31 am Reason: Merge consecutive posts by same member
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Old Apr 27, 2021, 10:57 am
  #1470  
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