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COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions

Old Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 am
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In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.

All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.

Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.

This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.

Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.

While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, dont call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.

After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.

Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,

your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.








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COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions

 
Old Mar 22, 2020, 4:02 pm
  #1351  
 
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Originally Posted by The_Bouncer
My grandparents fought for freedom.
I thought you were Austrian?
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 4:05 pm
  #1352  
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Originally Posted by tom tulpe
I thought you were Austrian?
No. I am British and live in Austria.
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 4:30 pm
  #1353  
 
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Originally Posted by The_Bouncer
No. I am British and live in Austria.
I feel much better now.
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 4:33 pm
  #1354  
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Originally Posted by notquiteaff
So I just called my mom. My parents are bit older than your mom, still remembering WW2 as young children. She assured me they were fine, comfortable at home with plenty of food, ability to walk outside to get exercise/fresh air. Just missing the grandkids.

She doesnt use expletives. Usually. But she had some choice words for those who think they are invincible, above the rules, cant live without bars for a while.

She als had choice words for the patient who put my sister and her colleagues into quarantine and shut down a primary care clinic for two weeks. Came in to be seen for back pain. Neglected to mention cough and shortness of breath or the fact that she just returned from skiing in northern Italy. (so yeah, this isnt all about strangers and news stories for me anymore)

She also had choice words for the neighbors who went on vacation to a tropical paradise about a week or so ago and are now stuck.

Choice words such as idiotic, selfish, irresponsible.
Well, we have both had our say now, and so have our respective mothers! All four of us are entitled to hold and express our respective opinions, so I will not continue this discussion as nauseum by attempting to have the last word, as this would benefit nobody.
​​​​
I am glad your parents are comfortable and wish them all the best.
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 4:36 pm
  #1355  
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Originally Posted by tom tulpe
I feel much better now.
🙂 I'm glad!

​​​​​​​Actually - technically, I'm British/Irish/Australian.
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 4:44 pm
  #1356  
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Originally Posted by The_Bouncer
I am glad your parents are comfortable and wish them all the best.
Thanks. Same to you and your family.
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 4:47 pm
  #1357  
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Originally Posted by notquiteaff
Thanks. Same to you and your family.
Thank you. Also thank you for remaining civil, despite our differing opinions.
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 5:04 pm
  #1358  
 
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Originally Posted by notquiteaff
Thanks. Same to you and your family.
Originally Posted by The_Bouncer
Thank you. Also thank you for remaining civil, despite our differing opinions.

Nice to see/read such a charitable exchange in this forum!
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 5:55 pm
  #1359  
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Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
Dont forget that no one has any immunity. A fact that underlies both of your points. People who understood knew it was different a long time ago.

There must be some number of recovered who have immunity?

It's a small percentage of those infected but it has to grow and eventually grow faster than new infections eventually.

Or else it's really grim.
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 6:01 pm
  #1360  
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Originally Posted by wco81
There must be some number of recovered who have immunity?

It's a small percentage of those infected but it has to grow and eventually grow faster than new infections eventually.

Or else it's really grim.

It’s really grim. And the faster it happens the more hospital overflow and the more people die. As in hundreds of thousands to millions in the US if it happens fast. Only about as many Americans as died in WWII if it happens slowly.
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 6:13 pm
  #1361  
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Originally Posted by wco81
There must be some number of recovered who have immunity?

It's a small percentage of those infected but it has to grow and eventually grow faster than new infections eventually.

Or else it's really grim.
Yes, but they did get infected in order to get immunity... and then had the opportunity to spread it to others and/or consume limited medical resources.

The “no immunity” refers to other diseases like flu where not everyone will get it if exposed due to immunity e.g. from flu shots.
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 6:27 pm
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Originally Posted by wco81
There must be some number of recovered who have immunity?

It's a small percentage of those infected but it has to grow and eventually grow faster than new infections eventually.

Or else it's really grim.
Yes, based on what we know now, people who have recovered have immunity. And it may not be a small percentage since many infections were never identified. There is no evidence of anyone being infected twice. If seasonal variants emerge down the road, then things might be different but a vaccine can be tailored to that over the long run. We will get that data over time once this peak surge gets hammered down and resources can shift to researching immunity. Immunoglobulins from recovered patients are now being used in treatment trials.

On the Diamond princess cruise ship which was a concentrated cesspool of viral load, everyone was tested, and where people with interior rooms were only allowed out for 1 hour a day, there were:
3,711 passengers
3,077 never tested positive (still surprising for something this contagious)
Half of the 638 who tested positive never had symptoms. The other half were symptomatic with a 1.2% case fatality rate in a population skewed toward older but with reasonable medical resources once they were able to disembark.
I would maintain that many of the 3,711 were exposed and may have made a little immunity without symptoms despite not testing positive. The nasal swab can have some false negatives if the test is not done deeply enough into the nasopharyngeal cavity.

For the short run, we should all do many things to be a grey person on that infographic
People are selfish. When you show them that infographic, tell them that everyone in gray DID NOT GET SICK and most people in pink did.

Choose gray, and choose your health. Don't be a statistic.
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 7:52 pm
  #1363  
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The Italians suggest that the US reserve their limited tests for the community, to avoid further spreading of the various, and to assume that the highly symptomatic patients in hospitals are infected. Instead, the US seems to be doing the opposite, focusing on prioritizing and limiting testing to already admitted inpatients in the hospital...Another US strategic mistake to pile up?

(excerpt)

"Another needed move from patient- to community-centered care: Assume everyone who develops a fever and other symptoms has the coronavirus, Cereda said. (A positive identification usually isnt necessary and doesnt change treatment, since there is no known Covid-19-specific therapy yet.) Then, at least until the U.S. has adequate testing capacity, reserve those tests for nursing homes, schools, and other possible hot spots in the community in order to identify people who are infected with virus but who do not have symptoms.

Dont let them spread it, Cereda said. If we had done this in January, the U.S. wouldnt be in this situation, with an exploding number of cases (poised to blow past 20,000 on Saturday) and overwhelmed hospitals.

Health officials in some hard-hit areas in the U.S., including in California and Washington, are already moving to reserve testing for high-risk populations, including health workers, the Washington Post reported."

https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/21/...ients-at-home/
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 8:08 pm
  #1364  
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Scary report from Olympian fighting Covid-19, how is a non-athlete going to fight this? I know it is variable, but is this how the 80% of mild cases will experience this? Geez....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mor...?ocid=primedhp

Cameron van der Burgh @Cameronvdburgh 2/ I have been struggling with Covid-19 for 14 days today. By far the worst virus I have ever endured despite being a healthy individual with strong lungs(no smoking/sport), living a healthy lifestyle and being young (least at risk demographic)
119
3/ Although the most severe symptoms(extreme fever) have eased, I am still struggling with serious fatigue and a residual cough that I can’t shake. Any physical activity like walking leaves me exhausted for hours.
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Old Mar 22, 2020, 8:11 pm
  #1365  
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Originally Posted by nk15
Scary report from Olympian fighting Covid-19, how is a non-athlete going to fight this? I know it is variable, but is this how the 80% of mild cases will experience this? Geez....

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mor...?ocid=primedhp

Cameron van der Burgh @Cameronvdburgh 2/ I have been struggling with Covid-19 for 14 days today. By far the worst virus I have ever endured despite being a healthy individual with strong lungs(no smoking/sport), living a healthy lifestyle and being young (least at risk demographic)
119
4:32 PM - Mar 22, 20203/ Although the most severe symptoms(extreme fever) have eased, I am still struggling with serious fatigue and a residual cough that I cant shake. Any physical activity like walking leaves me exhausted for hours.
Canada just announced that even IF the Olympics proceed as scheduled, they're not sending anyone.

I feel like it's game of "whoever blinks first has to pay for it" between Japan and the IOC on cancelling/postponing for a year.
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