Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, dont call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, dont call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions
#1186
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
The sooner the travel is completed and over to get home, the better. Tuesday may even be a day or two later than you may end up wishing to have gotten it over.
#1187
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SEA or BGR, Lower Earth Orbit
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 17,216
As far as timing leaving Seattle, that's the soonest and fastest way. I've got a few loose ends that I need to clean up here before I can leave anyway.
#1188
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PEK and BOS
Programs: BA - Blue
Posts: 4,530
I think we need to develop manageable routines...since we're going to be in this mode for several months...
tb
#1189
Join Date: May 2014
Location: BRU
Programs: BA GGL, TK E (*G), ITA exec
Posts: 4,023
I'm not a fan of gloves: they give a false sense of security. Lots of studies show that even healthcare workers contaminate their hands badly when removing gloves. In the hospital, I DO wear gloves, but then I wash my hands thoroughly immediately after removing the gloves, and the major reason I wear them (in most instances) is to protect the patient from incomplete hand-washing of myself...
I think we need to develop manageable routines...since we're going to be in this mode for several months...
tb
I think we need to develop manageable routines...since we're going to be in this mode for several months...
tb
Last edited by Lefly; Mar 21, 2020 at 12:29 pm
#1190
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
Dr Landon of the University of Chicago gave a great speech about the situation with these restrictions:
https://news.google.com/articles/CAI...S&ceid=US%3Aen
https://news.google.com/articles/CAI...S&ceid=US%3Aen
#1191
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,267
If he is able to maintain distance from other people while doing this, there is no issue with going out. The problem is being in close contact. You can go for a hike, run, etc, do plenty of semi-solitary outdoor things still and have a less chance of acquiring this than you would going to the grocery store where your risk of it being left on surfaces and ability to distance from other people is significantly impaired due to being in a confined space. This virus isn't just hanging out in the air where as soon as you step outside you're exposing yourself. It's transmitted through close contact. People SHOULD be going outside, getting regular exercise/fresh air because it does boost your immune system in addition to keeping yourself overall healthier while you're living a more sedentary lifestyle.
#1192
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: SAN, BOS
Programs: AS MVPG100K, BAEC Gold, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Plat,
Posts: 2,266
If he is able to maintain distance from other people while doing this, there is no issue with going out. The problem is being in close contact. You can go for a hike, run, etc, do plenty of semi-solitary outdoor things still and have a less chance of acquiring this than you would going to the grocery store where your risk of it being left on surfaces and ability to distance from other people is significantly impaired due to being in a confined space. This virus isn't just hanging out in the air where as soon as you step outside you're exposing yourself. It's transmitted through close contact. People SHOULD be going outside, getting regular exercise/fresh air because it does boost your immune system in addition to keeping yourself overall healthier while you're living a more sedentary lifestyle.
#1193
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,727
If he is able to maintain distance from other people while doing this, there is no issue with going out. The problem is being in close contact. You can go for a hike, run, etc, do plenty of semi-solitary outdoor things still and have a less chance of acquiring this than you would going to the grocery store where your risk of it being left on surfaces and ability to distance from other people is significantly impaired due to being in a confined space.
Here in CA, we're under orders to shelter in place, except for essential needs. I'm not infected. I have no symptoms and in perfect health. My family isn't infected either and all are in perfect health. So, what if I want to go out for a run? I'm and adult, and don't need anyone to tell me how to take care of myself and my family. I've come this far in life without needing a nanny, and certainly don't need one now.
#1194
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,187
Right.
Here in CA, we're under orders to shelter in place, except for essential needs. I'm not infected. I have no symptoms and in perfect health. My family isn't infected either and all are in perfect health. So, what if I want to go out for a run? I'm and adult, and don't need anyone to tell me how to take care of myself and my family. I've come this far in life without needing a nanny, and certainly don't need one now.
Here in CA, we're under orders to shelter in place, except for essential needs. I'm not infected. I have no symptoms and in perfect health. My family isn't infected either and all are in perfect health. So, what if I want to go out for a run? I'm and adult, and don't need anyone to tell me how to take care of myself and my family. I've come this far in life without needing a nanny, and certainly don't need one now.
#1195
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: USA
Programs: UA Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,166
I agree that striking the right cost/benefit is critical, but I will note that from what I can google, both South Korea and Japan have closed their schools and universities, right? What are the other key differences (besides testing) in the South Korea/Japan approach vs, say California's? I'm genuinely looking for a detailed comparison because I want to understand, not at all doubting anyone.
It does seem that reducing density of contact overall, widespread testing, and widespread wearing some form of protective masks (not mainly to protect you but to reduce statistical spread), can all work together for a big benefit. Unfortunately in the US we can't yet do the latter 2, so have to bias more toward the first one, despite its large economic cost.
It does seem that reducing density of contact overall, widespread testing, and widespread wearing some form of protective masks (not mainly to protect you but to reduce statistical spread), can all work together for a big benefit. Unfortunately in the US we can't yet do the latter 2, so have to bias more toward the first one, despite its large economic cost.
Without the masks, then the US will need more distancing in densely populated areas and standard social distancing in other areas. But schools will need to remain closed everywhere through the end of the spring semester. Classrooms are the most socially un-distant setting we have in many suburban and rural areas without weddings, meetings, and sporting events going on. We cannot just reopen them for two weeks at the end of the year. They probably will reopen for events like AP exams where they can be proctored at 5 students per room instead of 20.
But if we all just wash our hands and assume that every table, armrest, and doorknob could be infected because the last person who was there coughed on it and was not wearing a mask. So my hope is handwashing can make up for some of the lack of masks except possibly if someone in the household is sick or if you travel in full airplanes and subways or congregate in large groups, but handwashing can make up for it in other settings.
And a scarf is better than nothing at all. But I get triggered when anyone in the US says that masks don't work. Their opinion would be different if every household had a box of masks.
But if we all just wash our hands and assume that every table, armrest, and doorknob could be infected because the last person who was there coughed on it and was not wearing a mask. So my hope is handwashing can make up for some of the lack of masks except possibly if someone in the household is sick or if you travel in full airplanes and subways or congregate in large groups, but handwashing can make up for it in other settings.
And a scarf is better than nothing at all. But I get triggered when anyone in the US says that masks don't work. Their opinion would be different if every household had a box of masks.
#1196
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,727
Any CA lawyers here? The "shelter in place" doesn't mean I have to say home, but only that if I were to venture out, for any reason, to maintain a minimum of 6 feet from others?
#1197
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,960
If he is able to maintain distance from other people while doing this, there is no issue with going out. ...People SHOULD be going outside, getting regular exercise/fresh air because it does boost your immune system in addition to keeping yourself overall healthier while you're living a more sedentary lifestyle.
#1198
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Truth or Consequences, NM
Programs: HH Diamond, Marriott Titanium, Hertz President's Circle, UA Silver, Mobile Passport Unobtanium
Posts: 6,187
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/...are-the-rules/
#1199
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SEA or BGR, Lower Earth Orbit
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 17,216
Flight is booked for the Tuesday red eye home.
#1200
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,267
The measure which will reduce air travel down airlines voluntarily continuing to trim their schedules in order to conserve cash flow.