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COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions

Old Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 am
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In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.

All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.

Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.

This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.

Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.

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After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.

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Please stay healthy,

your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.








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COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions

 
Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:08 pm
  #1186  
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The sooner the travel is completed and over to get home, the better. Tuesday may even be a day or two later than you may end up wishing to have gotten it over.
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:12 pm
  #1187  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
The sooner the travel is completed and over to get home, the better. Tuesday may even be a day or two later than you may end up wishing to have gotten it over.
As far as timing leaving Seattle, that's the soonest and fastest way. I've got a few loose ends that I need to clean up here before I can leave anyway.
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:14 pm
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Originally Posted by Lefly
Would there be something wrong in handling the package with gloves, open it and dispose of the box/wrap immediately?
I'm not a fan of gloves: they give a false sense of security. Lots of studies show that even healthcare workers contaminate their hands badly when removing gloves. In the hospital, I DO wear gloves, but then I wash my hands thoroughly immediately after removing the gloves, and the major reason I wear them (in most instances) is to protect the patient from incomplete hand-washing of myself...

I think we need to develop manageable routines...since we're going to be in this mode for several months...

tb
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:23 pm
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Originally Posted by trueblu
I'm not a fan of gloves: they give a false sense of security. Lots of studies show that even healthcare workers contaminate their hands badly when removing gloves. In the hospital, I DO wear gloves, but then I wash my hands thoroughly immediately after removing the gloves, and the major reason I wear them (in most instances) is to protect the patient from incomplete hand-washing of myself...

I think we need to develop manageable routines...since we're going to be in this mode for several months...

tb
Of course I agree using gloves doesn't substitute the hand wash, it's a plus. When I wrote of using gloves I thought it obvious than when you pull them out, then you wash your hands too

Last edited by Lefly; Mar 21, 2020 at 12:29 pm
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:24 pm
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Dr Landon of the University of Chicago gave a great speech about the situation with these restrictions:

https://news.google.com/articles/CAI...S&ceid=US%3Aen
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:27 pm
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Originally Posted by TravelingZoomer
Meanwhile, people in the US are STILL not taking it seriously. Hell, I nearly blew my brothers ear off when I found out he decided to go cliff diving at sunset cliffs, two days ago.
If he is able to maintain distance from other people while doing this, there is no issue with going out. The problem is being in close contact. You can go for a hike, run, etc, do plenty of semi-solitary outdoor things still and have a less chance of acquiring this than you would going to the grocery store where your risk of it being left on surfaces and ability to distance from other people is significantly impaired due to being in a confined space. This virus isn't just hanging out in the air where as soon as you step outside you're exposing yourself. It's transmitted through close contact. People SHOULD be going outside, getting regular exercise/fresh air because it does boost your immune system in addition to keeping yourself overall healthier while you're living a more sedentary lifestyle.
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:29 pm
  #1192  
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Originally Posted by Lux Flyer
If he is able to maintain distance from other people while doing this, there is no issue with going out. The problem is being in close contact. You can go for a hike, run, etc, do plenty of semi-solitary outdoor things still and have a less chance of acquiring this than you would going to the grocery store where your risk of it being left on surfaces and ability to distance from other people is significantly impaired due to being in a confined space. This virus isn't just hanging out in the air where as soon as you step outside you're exposing yourself. It's transmitted through close contact. People SHOULD be going outside, getting regular exercise/fresh air because it does boost your immune system in addition to keeping yourself overall healthier while you're living a more sedentary lifestyle.
I believe you are unaware of sunset cliffs (a very nice area in San Diego county). Its notoriously crowded and from his description it was no exception.
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:35 pm
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Originally Posted by Lux Flyer
If he is able to maintain distance from other people while doing this, there is no issue with going out. The problem is being in close contact. You can go for a hike, run, etc, do plenty of semi-solitary outdoor things still and have a less chance of acquiring this than you would going to the grocery store where your risk of it being left on surfaces and ability to distance from other people is significantly impaired due to being in a confined space.
Right.

Here in CA, we're under orders to shelter in place, except for essential needs. I'm not infected. I have no symptoms and in perfect health. My family isn't infected either and all are in perfect health. So, what if I want to go out for a run? I'm and adult, and don't need anyone to tell me how to take care of myself and my family. I've come this far in life without needing a nanny, and certainly don't need one now.
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:37 pm
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Originally Posted by Visconti
Right.

Here in CA, we're under orders to shelter in place, except for essential needs. I'm not infected. I have no symptoms and in perfect health. My family isn't infected either and all are in perfect health. So, what if I want to go out for a run? I'm and adult, and don't need anyone to tell me how to take care of myself and my family. I've come this far in life without needing a nanny, and certainly don't need one now.
Pretty easy to stay at least six feet away from someone while out running. Not really an issue, AFAIK.
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:40 pm
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Originally Posted by jmastron
I agree that striking the right cost/benefit is critical, but I will note that from what I can google, both South Korea and Japan have closed their schools and universities, right? What are the other key differences (besides testing) in the South Korea/Japan approach vs, say California's? I'm genuinely looking for a detailed comparison because I want to understand, not at all doubting anyone.

It does seem that reducing density of contact overall, widespread testing, and widespread wearing some form of protective masks (not mainly to protect you but to reduce statistical spread), can all work together for a big benefit. Unfortunately in the US we can't yet do the latter 2, so have to bias more toward the first one, despite its large economic cost.
Originally Posted by trueblu
I'm with you on this one...
But in the US we DO have a history of neckerchiefs, particularly in the West ...





Originally Posted by FlyBitcoin
Without the masks, then the US will need more distancing in densely populated areas and standard social distancing in other areas. But schools will need to remain closed everywhere through the end of the spring semester. Classrooms are the most socially un-distant setting we have in many suburban and rural areas without weddings, meetings, and sporting events going on. We cannot just reopen them for two weeks at the end of the year. They probably will reopen for events like AP exams where they can be proctored at 5 students per room instead of 20.

But if we all just wash our hands and assume that every table, armrest, and doorknob could be infected because the last person who was there coughed on it and was not wearing a mask. So my hope is handwashing can make up for some of the lack of masks except possibly if someone in the household is sick or if you travel in full airplanes and subways or congregate in large groups, but handwashing can make up for it in other settings.

And a scarf is better than nothing at all. But I get triggered when anyone in the US says that masks don't work. Their opinion would be different if every household had a box of masks.
The silver lining I hope to get out of all this is better personal hygiene. Always used to irritate me seeing grown adults use the restroom and then leave without washing their hands. Thankfully haven't seen that in the past couple of weeks ...
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:40 pm
  #1196  
 
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Originally Posted by Diplomatico
Pretty easy to stay at least six feet away from someone while out running. Not really an issue, AFAIK.
Any CA lawyers here? The "shelter in place" doesn't mean I have to say home, but only that if I were to venture out, for any reason, to maintain a minimum of 6 feet from others?
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:41 pm
  #1197  
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Originally Posted by Lux Flyer
If he is able to maintain distance from other people while doing this, there is no issue with going out. ...People SHOULD be going outside, getting regular exercise/fresh air because it does boost your immune system in addition to keeping yourself overall healthier while you're living a more sedentary lifestyle.
I would say that also should avoid risky sports. We all really need to do what we can to help reduce the load on our first responders and hospitals.
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:42 pm
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Originally Posted by Visconti
Any CA lawyers here? The "shelter in place" doesn't mean I have to say home, but only that if I were to venture out, for any reason, to maintain a minimum of 6 feet from others?
"In his announcement Thursday night, Newsom indicated outdoor recreation and exercise is also allowed he mentioned dog-walking and taking your kids outside as long as social distancing and other common sense preventive measures are followed."

https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/03/...are-the-rules/
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 12:47 pm
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Flight is booked for the Tuesday red eye home.
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Old Mar 21, 2020, 1:04 pm
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Originally Posted by CALMSP
this is why I think a full US airline shutdown is coming. You can't tell people to stay away from each other then have a plane with a whole bunch of people flying around (and beyond that with an a/c flying multiple legs)
Unlikely. Under that same argument you'd also be seeing public transit shut down across the country. The point of banning airilne travel is to reduce the spread into a new area. Every state has coronoavirus and most places are hotspots due to community spread, not importing new cases. Additionally with airports being so empty there is effective social distancing within there, and airplanes flying at 20% capacity, ther eis plenty of opportunities to distance yourself by spreading out among rows, which I've never had a FA raise issue about people relocating themself within the same cabin as long as W&B is okay.. Not to mention airlines do ban people showing symptoms of significant illness from flying, that was the case even before the COVID19 outbreak. Additionally completely closing airline travel will impair the ability of essential personnel to relocate and provide assistance as the pandemic continues to evolve.

The measure which will reduce air travel down airlines voluntarily continuing to trim their schedules in order to conserve cash flow.
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