Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 am
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions
Mar 27, 2020, 4:35 pm
#1846
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BOS, YVR, ZRH
Programs: *G
Posts: 17,398
And even if you are going to get sick you are probably contagious before you get sick. That is one of the real problems with this virus. It spreads without symptoms which is why the temperature checks at airports that were so common (and effective) with SARS won’t work with this coronavirus and why it is spreading so much.
a) I was at home, only went to the grocery store once.
b) I went X, Y, Z, A, B, C, hung out with these people, those people, took public transit to all of those places and went to visit my grandma
what's worse?
Mar 27, 2020, 4:42 pm
#1847
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,038
Aside from the likelihood that some may have already been affected, those of us choosing to move on are assuming the risk and infecting each other building a potential herd immunity. The moment I'm sick, I'll self quarantine. Those at risk, stay away. I really don't see an issue with this.
Thats because non-symptomatic people can spread it. So you assurance means nothing.
Mar 27, 2020, 5:04 pm
#1848
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,773
Something I'm having some trouble understanding. Those who may work from home continue to do so, if they prefer. Those who prefer to avoid risk are free to stay sheltered in place. Those in the high risk demographics may be protected and isolated. I have no issues with anyone staying sheltered until there is a vaccine. What is the harm in allowing those of us who understand the risk and are willing to take them? If I or my family get sick and die, we won't blame anyone. I'll even promise, if infected (assuming I haven't already been) to stay home and refuse going to the hospital even at the risk of serious complications.
Why is there so much resistance to this? Is that those of you who feel better about sheltered would find some consolation if we all did it with you?
Why is there so much resistance to this? Is that those of you who feel better about sheltered would find some consolation if we all did it with you?
Sort of like those who must diet, for whatever reason, annoyed that some of us can eat anything under the Sun without restrictions?
Mar 27, 2020, 5:08 pm
#1849
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,038
There have always been control freaks in our society. The problem today is that they are using fear and panic to convert many many people to their alarmist religion.
Vegans would be a better example. Most people on a diet are understanding of those who are not. Vegans feel compelled to order everyone else to do as they do.
Vegans would be a better example. Most people on a diet are understanding of those who are not. Vegans feel compelled to order everyone else to do as they do.
Mar 27, 2020, 5:18 pm
#1850
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
That's fine. Ultimately, if this continues, the only opinion that matters will be a Federal Judge. The rest is just background noise, even POTUS.
Mar 27, 2020, 5:21 pm
#1851
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,279
Mar 27, 2020, 5:40 pm
#1852
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: 42.1% in PDX , 49.9% in PVG & 8% in the air somewhere
Programs: Marriott Ambassador Elite, UA 1K, AS MVP GLD 75K, DL Pt
Posts: 1,086
I am very glad for you that you sold all your investments. I know many people who were convinced on the last USA election day that Trump's presidency would be disasterous to the stock market and sold all their stocks. Sometimes you guess right, sometimes wrong. My recommendation: don't assume you're a genius.
Mar 27, 2020, 6:06 pm
#1853
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
From NY Post.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/26/cuomo-...ce=twitter_app
Good luck to CA meeting the burden of proof to justify keeping me "sheltered in place" should I choose to resist.
https://nypost.com/2020/03/26/cuomo-...ce=twitter_app
“There’s a theory of risk stratification that Dr. Katz who’s at Yale University is working on, which is actually very interesting to me,” Cuomo told reporters then. “Isolate people but really isolate the vulnerable people. Don’t isolate everyone because some people, most people, are not vulnerable to it.”
He added: “And if you isolate all people, you may be actually exposing the more vulnerable people by bringing in a person who is healthier and stronger and who may have been exposed to the virus, right.”
He added: “And if you isolate all people, you may be actually exposing the more vulnerable people by bringing in a person who is healthier and stronger and who may have been exposed to the virus, right.”
Last edited by Visconti; Mar 27, 2020 at 6:12 pm Reason: Corrected link...
Mar 27, 2020, 6:43 pm
#1854
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BOS, YVR, ZRH
Programs: *G
Posts: 17,398
No genius, know the fundamentals, be disciplined set realistic goals. In my case I met my 2020 goals in 2019, and got out. At a dinner party in early Feb we had a discussion about investing and everyone was shocked how I got out. I had goals met them and was very simply view it could go up another 20% this year and I'd be happy to miss it as I met my goals and when I looked at the larger macro-economics this was simply crazy situation. Still find it hard to believe any muti national CEO couldn't look and figure out the FUBAR
Mar 27, 2020, 7:00 pm
#1855
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Bay Area - East Bay
Programs: UA 1k, AS 75k, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 641
One anecdotal reason why the US is #1 and doomed, IMO:
We're washing our horses outside prior to putting them in the barn yesterday evening.
Neighbor drives over, and hops out of his car. He's usually a bit of a "close-talker", so I ask him to observe physical distancing.
He keeps approaching, so I again ask him to maintain physical distance. He proceeds to approach whilst insisting: "I don't have it, don't worry!".
I grab and don my N99 mask.
He immediately gets annoyed, mumbles something, turns around and leaves in a huff.
:
We're washing our horses outside prior to putting them in the barn yesterday evening.
Neighbor drives over, and hops out of his car. He's usually a bit of a "close-talker", so I ask him to observe physical distancing.
He keeps approaching, so I again ask him to maintain physical distance. He proceeds to approach whilst insisting: "I don't have it, don't worry!".
I grab and don my N99 mask.
He immediately gets annoyed, mumbles something, turns around and leaves in a huff.
:
Mar 27, 2020, 7:05 pm
#1856
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NY Metro Area
Programs: AA 2MM Yay!, UA MM, Costco General Member
Posts: 49,038
Mar 27, 2020, 7:16 pm
#1857
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 11
Why is there not a shutdown of all air travel in the USA at this point?
Mar 27, 2020, 7:25 pm
#1858
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: I 35 south bound, finally stopped
Programs: LT Plt, 4mm, *A GLD, burned out medical provider, executing our estate plan
Posts: 1,665
Has anyone else registered for the US Govt't Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) ? You can put your trips in and will get notices from applicable embassies.
Word of advice - DO NOT enroll. I did a couple months ago for a trip to a few countries in the EU. Well my trip got canceled so I went to the site and removed/deleted it, yet I still am getting daily email 'updates' from the embassies. There is no unsubscribe link in the emails either, and no other way to unsubscribe from this mystery list.
The step site has an 'unsubscribe' link at the bottom where you can put your info and countries to be removed from, yes it doesn't work... it just send you an email saying that you can't be found on the list.
Word of advice - DO NOT enroll. I did a couple months ago for a trip to a few countries in the EU. Well my trip got canceled so I went to the site and removed/deleted it, yet I still am getting daily email 'updates' from the embassies. There is no unsubscribe link in the emails either, and no other way to unsubscribe from this mystery list.
The step site has an 'unsubscribe' link at the bottom where you can put your info and countries to be removed from, yes it doesn't work... it just send you an email saying that you can't be found on the list.
Mar 27, 2020, 8:45 pm
#1859
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,666
One anecdotal reason why the US is #1 and doomed, IMO:
We're washing our horses outside prior to putting them in the barn yesterday evening.
Neighbor drives over, and hops out of his car. He's usually a bit of a "close-talker", so I ask him to observe physical distancing.
He keeps approaching, so I again ask him to maintain physical distance. He proceeds to approach whilst insisting: "I don't have it, don't worry!".
I grab and don my N99 mask.
He immediately gets annoyed, mumbles something, turns around and leaves in a huff.
In stark contrast to this from several months ago from China:
We're washing our horses outside prior to putting them in the barn yesterday evening.
Neighbor drives over, and hops out of his car. He's usually a bit of a "close-talker", so I ask him to observe physical distancing.
He keeps approaching, so I again ask him to maintain physical distance. He proceeds to approach whilst insisting: "I don't have it, don't worry!".
I grab and don my N99 mask.
He immediately gets annoyed, mumbles something, turns around and leaves in a huff.
In stark contrast to this from several months ago from China:
Last edited by nk15; Mar 27, 2020 at 8:51 pm
Mar 27, 2020, 9:41 pm
#1860
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,162
No, the party is centralized as well as murkily 'consultative' at the top. When regional CCP leaders were told to suppress information, it was at the direction of the Secretariat and with the blessing of certain Politburo standing members. [Edited by Moderator as unduly personalized per FT Rule 12.]
US health agencies and State governments run in democratic terrain with subsidiarity and are far from such corruption or dishonesty. If you had read previous articles, you would have learned how officials struggled to keep pace with developments in the field, even as the White House came under domestic political attack.
Officials are not downplaying the seriousness of the Covid-19 pandemic. That is why the task force is led by no less than the Vice-President. They work on various global strategies and are not hiding what little data is available.
I would give them the benefit of the doubt, their people down the line are fighting partly blind against an overwhelming enemy.
[Overly political commentary deleted by Moderator as off-topic for this forum but may be posted in OMNI/PR.]
US health agencies and State governments run in democratic terrain with subsidiarity and are far from such corruption or dishonesty. If you had read previous articles, you would have learned how officials struggled to keep pace with developments in the field, even as the White House came under domestic political attack.
Officials are not downplaying the seriousness of the Covid-19 pandemic. That is why the task force is led by no less than the Vice-President. They work on various global strategies and are not hiding what little data is available.
I would give them the benefit of the doubt, their people down the line are fighting partly blind against an overwhelming enemy.
[Overly political commentary deleted by Moderator as off-topic for this forum but may be posted in OMNI/PR.]