Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 am
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions
Mar 26, 2020, 9:17 am
#1711
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Well, plastic bags are illegal in NY but I believe the virus lives longer on plastic than paper anyway. We have been getting food, wiping the outside of the container with disinfectant and transferring to another container in some cases and asking sure stuff is well cooked.
Mar 26, 2020, 9:21 am
#1712
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Mar 26, 2020, 9:24 am
#1713
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
Here in SF, I've been given plastic bags recently. When something truly matters, health & prosperity would be at the top of the list, no one cares about these silly laws. Talk to me about peripheral societal concerns when we're over this, until then, please put a lid on it.
Mar 26, 2020, 9:27 am
#1714
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India is on nationwide lockdown, but an exception is being allowed to go out shopping for food. That apparently did not work out so well for one man who went shopping for milk, and seems not to have been believed by police who allegedly beat him so severely that he died.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...olice-beating/
I guess be suspected of evading lockdown can have some pretty severe consequences some places.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...olice-beating/
I guess be suspected of evading lockdown can have some pretty severe consequences some places.
Lockdowns with hyper-powered, possibly armed agents of the state come with their own risks for the common person .... even when a common person is following all the official rules.
Mar 26, 2020, 9:31 am
#1715
Ambassador: World of Hyatt
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: UK - the nearest airport is named after a motorway !
Posts: 4,232
I've recently been trying to add up-to-the-minute data on all-cause mortality to the metrics I'm keeping an eye on, to try to get some perspective on how many additional deaths are being caused by Covid-19.
The UK publishes figures on a weekly basis along with information about whether any statistically significant increase has been detected overall, or in subpopulations by region or age, against the prediction based on previous years. No increase was detected in the latest data. It was published nearly a week ago and it should be noted that there can be a time lag between death and registration of death.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...e-2019-to-2020
There is also EURO MOMO (European Mortality Monitoring) which is also published weekly as an aggregate across all of Europe and an aggregate for each country. This also shows no statistically significant increase for Europe or for any individual country, but that should be interpreted with caution. Any potential increase in the all-Europe figure is probably concentrated in Italy/Spain and would thus be diluted out of the aggregate for Europe by the rest of Europe. Any potential increase in Italy or Spain might be concentrated in a region and thus diluted by the rest of the country.
EURO MOMO
These will be interesting to monitor over the coming weeks. If anyone knows of other all-cause mortality monitoring data sources for other countries/regions please post links.
The UK publishes figures on a weekly basis along with information about whether any statistically significant increase has been detected overall, or in subpopulations by region or age, against the prediction based on previous years. No increase was detected in the latest data. It was published nearly a week ago and it should be noted that there can be a time lag between death and registration of death.
https://www.gov.uk/government/statis...e-2019-to-2020
There is also EURO MOMO (European Mortality Monitoring) which is also published weekly as an aggregate across all of Europe and an aggregate for each country. This also shows no statistically significant increase for Europe or for any individual country, but that should be interpreted with caution. Any potential increase in the all-Europe figure is probably concentrated in Italy/Spain and would thus be diluted out of the aggregate for Europe by the rest of Europe. Any potential increase in Italy or Spain might be concentrated in a region and thus diluted by the rest of the country.
EURO MOMO
These will be interesting to monitor over the coming weeks. If anyone knows of other all-cause mortality monitoring data sources for other countries/regions please post links.
Let's see what happens next week.
Last edited by Stewie Mac; Mar 26, 2020 at 9:42 am Reason: changed reference to 'coronavirus' deaths
Mar 26, 2020, 9:31 am
#1716
Join Date: Jan 2016
Programs: AA Platinum
Posts: 50
Agree on masks - they will no longer be taboo in America, at least the big cities.
Some other habits should be here to stay, and thank goodness: coughing into one's elbow (not fist); washing hands with soap for a long enough time to actually remove germs. I suspect the "wave hands under the sensor for 1 second" game will have fewer players/
Some other habits should be here to stay, and thank goodness: coughing into one's elbow (not fist); washing hands with soap for a long enough time to actually remove germs. I suspect the "wave hands under the sensor for 1 second" game will have fewer players/
Luckily it doesn't take long to retrain ourselves. I got used to the Dracula sneeze fast when working in a school. All the kids already know how to do and most of them follow it. Those who don't are still the I'm going to sneeze like I'm a sprinkler type of kids.
Mar 26, 2020, 9:33 am
#1717
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The Swedish viking experiment continues: around 20 more deaths in Sweden from
this in the last 24 hours, moving the number up from around 40 to now 60 at least. Less than a week ago the number of Sweden’s death from this was in the low single digits. Keep in mind Sweden’s populations is only slightly larger than the greater Chicago metropolitan area’s population.
Reusable cloth shopping bags were probably a big spreader of polio in India. I would not expect there to have yet been a peer-reviewed, published study about this novel coronavirus and cloth shopping bags, but cloth is worse than paper when considering fomites for a whole slew of viruses.
this in the last 24 hours, moving the number up from around 40 to now 60 at least. Less than a week ago the number of Sweden’s death from this was in the low single digits. Keep in mind Sweden’s populations is only slightly larger than the greater Chicago metropolitan area’s population.
Reusable cloth shopping bags were probably a big spreader of polio in India. I would not expect there to have yet been a peer-reviewed, published study about this novel coronavirus and cloth shopping bags, but cloth is worse than paper when considering fomites for a whole slew of viruses.
Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 26, 2020 at 9:47 am
Mar 26, 2020, 9:59 am
#1718
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: I 35 south bound, finally stopped
Programs: LT Plt, 4mm, *A GLD, burned out medical provider, executing our estate plan
Posts: 1,665
not yet. we will be looking at data for years. Currently on a conference call about health care professionals refusing temp checks with disposable oral thermometers at the hospital entrance. New CDC guidance on PPE out March 24. google it, not posting the link. Negative pressure rooms are at high priority. We are already talking about virus positive workers who have become asymptomatic returning to work and how they need to protect patients and the steps they must take. A lot of forward thinking going on, simply because it is a given that the front line will become positive, with a bench that is very shallow.
Mar 26, 2020, 10:17 am
#1719
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pacific Wonderland
Programs: ʙᴏɴᴠo̱ʏ Au, IHG Au, HH Dia, Nexus, Pilot FlyingJ Preferred
Posts: 5,336
Speaking of counter productive feel good nonsense that continues to be perpetuated- the ban on self service gasoline in Oregon is still there. Gov is whining about people not social distancing, yet won't end that for the time being.
Mar 26, 2020, 10:32 am
#1720
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
This isn't specifically AA but you have wonder how long will it before when people are again comfortable being shoved shoulder to shoulder within a small metal tube?
Mar 26, 2020, 10:33 am
#1721
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Reusable cloth shopping bags were probably a big spreader of polio in India. I would not expect there to have yet been a peer-reviewed, published study about this novel coronavirus and cloth shopping bags, but cloth is worse than paper when considering fomites for a whole slew of viruses.
Most of my reusable bags are nylon/plastic. They get thrown into the garage where they sit around unused for 4-5 days between shopping trips. Not really convinced that they pose a significant risk on top of the risk I accept by going into the store in the first place to buy some fresh items instead of sticking to shelf-stable items I already own.
Not sure how the risks of self-service gas pumping (touching the same pump everyone else touches; obviously can wear gloves) vs. handing someone your credit card through a mostly closed side window would compare. Not something that would keep me personally up at night. If I had to get gas, I would just use a hand sanitizer wipe to clean the card and my hands afterwards.
Last edited by notquiteaff; Mar 26, 2020 at 10:41 am
Mar 26, 2020, 10:39 am
#1722
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
From another thread, the Epi guy in the UK revised 500,000 dead to 20,000 dead. If this is true and we in the USA triggered all of this from his work, I want some Politicians ousted in November.
Mar 26, 2020, 10:54 am
#1723
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Pacific Wonderland
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Not sure how the risks of self-service gas pumping (touching the same pump everyone else touches; obviously can wear gloves) vs. handing someone your credit card through a mostly closed side window would compare. Not something that would keep me personally up at night. If I had to get gas, I would just use a hand sanitizer wipe to clean the card and my hands afterwards.
Mar 26, 2020, 10:58 am
#1724
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,353
Last longer but a couple of other advantages to plastic bags- they're a solid barrier to liquids in/out, they can be wiped down at least on the outside, they pack tighter into the garbage for disposal.
Speaking of counter productive feel good nonsense that continues to be perpetuated- the ban on self service gasoline in Oregon is still there. Gov is whining about people not social distancing, yet won't end that for the time being.
Speaking of counter productive feel good nonsense that continues to be perpetuated- the ban on self service gasoline in Oregon is still there. Gov is whining about people not social distancing, yet won't end that for the time being.
Before completely shutting down, I was part of a buffet service where we consciously avoided having multiple people touching serving utensils by having the guests stand back and say what they wanted, while our volunteer servers (wearing fresh gloves) served onto the plates. I had seen someone's video where the server handled plates that guests had touched, so made sure to avoid that by having only servers touch the plates until complete and doing a single handover. Even had a server pouring glasses of lemonade for people to pick up, rather than handling the spigot themselves. If a server had to contact anything a guest had touched (cleanup for example), we changed gloves before any other task.
I definitely agree that things like reused cups and reused bags should be avoided right now -- it seems pretty clear that a fresh bag (or cup) of any material coming from a box, handled only by the person who's touching all your groceries/drink anyway, has to be less of a spread risk than bags and cups that have been who-knows-where handled by who-knows-who. And it has to be store policy -- the baggers and cashiers simply shouldn't be touching things touched by one customer before handling things for the next customer.
Mar 26, 2020, 11:02 am
#1725
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A tragedy indeed, but how do you make people follow the most strict measure w/o some risk of severe ramification. Then the larger population of billion make the necessary adjustments regardless of the personal costs and the larger group has huge reward/benefit?
Take the very different debate now happening with POTUS who wants to turn at Easter.
Take the very different debate now happening with POTUS who wants to turn at Easter.
EDIT: After rereading your post for the fourth time, I do not believe that you personally are suggesting this. I hope that nobody else is either.
Last edited by The_Bouncer; Mar 26, 2020 at 11:11 am