Jun 24, 2020, 6:06 am
Last edit by: NewbieRunner
Moderator announcement - June 23, 2020:
Flyertalk’s moderators generally take a hands-off approach when it comes to judging the accuracy of members’ statements. While that’s fine for travel debates, a pandemic is clearly a more serious issue.
A meta-analysis of 172 studies that looked at various interventions to prevent the transmission of COVID-19, SARS and MERS from an infected person to people close to them, published in The Lancet on June 1, found that mask wearing significantly reduces the risk of viral transmission.
Given the science, the forum moderators are disallowing any further posts that debate whether or not masks should be worn. Posts that do so will be deleted and members subject to discipline.
Please also note, we do not allow posting of conspiracy theories or racist terms used in place of Covid-19, coronavirus, etc.
- Coronavirus and Travel moderator team
Flyertalk’s moderators generally take a hands-off approach when it comes to judging the accuracy of members’ statements. While that’s fine for travel debates, a pandemic is clearly a more serious issue.
A meta-analysis of 172 studies that looked at various interventions to prevent the transmission of COVID-19, SARS and MERS from an infected person to people close to them, published in The Lancet on June 1, found that mask wearing significantly reduces the risk of viral transmission.
Given the science, the forum moderators are disallowing any further posts that debate whether or not masks should be worn. Posts that do so will be deleted and members subject to discipline.
Please also note, we do not allow posting of conspiracy theories or racist terms used in place of Covid-19, coronavirus, etc.
- Coronavirus and Travel moderator team
Coronavirus and masks/face coverings [Consolidated thread]
May 19, 2020, 12:16 am
#691
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SFO, TPE, HNL
Programs: UA GS 4MM, RCC life member (paid), Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, CLEAR
Posts: 1,822
May 19, 2020, 8:39 am
#692
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Between AUS, EWR, and YTO In a little twisty maze of airline seats, all alike.. but I wanna go home with the armadillo
Programs: CO, NW, & UA forum moderator emeritus
Posts: 35,423
And there we have it. 
May 19, 2020, 9:01 am
#693
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
Some anecdotal reports on Twitter about airlines and FA's being powerless to enforce the company mask policy when passengers remove masks or refuse to wear them.
Sadly, with no federal guidance, not wearing a mask will not rise to the level of smoking in the lavatory, nor could a federal air marshal do anything about it.
One FA I spoke with said that she will re-seat the anti-maskers to the window seats of the last 3 rows of the plane.
Sadly, with no federal guidance, not wearing a mask will not rise to the level of smoking in the lavatory, nor could a federal air marshal do anything about it.
One FA I spoke with said that she will re-seat the anti-maskers to the window seats of the last 3 rows of the plane.
May 19, 2020, 9:10 am
#694
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,439
The point I am trying to make is that except for those working directly with Covid infected patients in an acute care setting, use of simple masks is not for your safety but those around you. Just like herd immunity, if everyone is using a simple mask that suppresses droplet spread, then that plus hand-washing and distance will be quite effective in suppressing viral transmission of this disease.
May 19, 2020, 9:12 am
#695
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
Some anecdotal reports on Twitter about airlines and FA's being powerless to enforce the company mask policy when passengers remove masks or refuse to wear them.
Sadly, with no federal guidance, not wearing a mask will not rise to the level of smoking in the lavatory, nor could a federal air marshal do anything about it.
Sadly, with no federal guidance, not wearing a mask will not rise to the level of smoking in the lavatory, nor could a federal air marshal do anything about it.
https://www.francetvinfo.fr/sante/ma...s_3956571.html
I believe this procedure is already US law, or coded into FAA PAR's which is pretty much the same thing. So perhaps there is no need for the US government to do anything else.
May 19, 2020, 9:14 am
#696
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: DSM
Programs: UA 1K, AA EP, DL PL, HH Dia, Marriott Gld, National Exp
Posts: 722
May 19, 2020, 10:51 am
#697
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,668
Some anecdotal reports on Twitter about airlines and FA's being powerless to enforce the company mask policy when passengers remove masks or refuse to wear them.
Sadly, with no federal guidance, not wearing a mask will not rise to the level of smoking in the lavatory, nor could a federal air marshal do anything about it.
One FA I spoke with said that she will re-seat the anti-maskers to the window seats of the last 3 rows of the plane.
Sadly, with no federal guidance, not wearing a mask will not rise to the level of smoking in the lavatory, nor could a federal air marshal do anything about it.
One FA I spoke with said that she will re-seat the anti-maskers to the window seats of the last 3 rows of the plane.
The last 3 rows may actually be a thing, A3 says they will leave them empty on all flights and use it as the "quarantine" section for anyone with any symptoms (and I a guessing any troublemakers?). Which tells you that we should be booking front of aircraft...
May 19, 2020, 3:12 pm
#698
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: 42.1% in PDX , 49.9% in PVG & 8% in the air somewhere
Programs: Marriott Ambassador Elite, UA 1K, AS MVP GLD 75K, DL Pt
Posts: 1,086
Yea, good luck enforcing it with the anti-mask or "I can't breath with it" crowd (which may include legit cases). And forget about winning any arguments about exhaling valves. Most likely you may end up offloading yourself, I fear....
The last 3 rows may actually be a thing, A3 says they will leave them empty on all flights and use it as the "quarantine" section for anyone with any symptoms (and I a guessing any troublemakers?). Which tells you that we should be booking front of aircraft...
The last 3 rows may actually be a thing, A3 says they will leave them empty on all flights and use it as the "quarantine" section for anyone with any symptoms (and I a guessing any troublemakers?). Which tells you that we should be booking front of aircraft...
I was thinking about the expectations about appropriate dress either on an airplane or being served in a store and don't hear people object to the need to wear clothes, shoes etc. when going to a store or getting on an airplane, why is this mask thing so difficult?
May 19, 2020, 3:13 pm
#699
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SFO, TPE, HNL
Programs: UA GS 4MM, RCC life member (paid), Marriott Lifetime Titanium, Hyatt Globalist, CLEAR
Posts: 1,822
If you want to protect yourself, you will not only need a mask that excludes viral particles (N99 better than N95), but you will also need to learn how to secure it to your face or take it off without contaminating yourself, or others. That will probably mean using gloves, changing clothes and learning how to remove those after removing your mask so you don't spread virus onto yourself. It actually is quite difficult to remove PPE properly.
The point I am trying to make is that except for those working directly with Covid infected patients in an acute care setting, use of simple masks is not for your safety but those around you. Just like herd immunity, if everyone is using a simple mask that suppresses droplet spread, then that plus hand-washing and distance will be quite effective in suppressing viral transmission of this disease.
The point I am trying to make is that except for those working directly with Covid infected patients in an acute care setting, use of simple masks is not for your safety but those around you. Just like herd immunity, if everyone is using a simple mask that suppresses droplet spread, then that plus hand-washing and distance will be quite effective in suppressing viral transmission of this disease.
Guidance for Parks as an Essential Service During a Pandemic - Part 2
The first slide is a retrospective study of 250 health workers in a Hong Kong hospital during 2003 SARS who were exposed to SARS patients, 143 wore masks.There was no difference in the protective effect between the two types of masks.
.
The second slide is a prospective study in Canada for a whole winter season, in which the 440 nurses in the study were separated into two groups. One was told always use a surgical mask and the other always a N95, when interacting with a patient throughout the whole season. At the end of the season, there was no significant difference between the two types of masks.
Third slide: Ten years later, the prospective study was repeated with 10+ times as many participants (>5000). The result was the same, the two types of masks offer the same level of protection.
Slide 1 Hong Kong SARS 2003 (Retrospective Study)
Slide 2 Canada 2009 (Prospective Study n=422)
Slide 3 Canada 2019 (Prospective Study n=5180)
Last edited by PanAmWT; May 19, 2020 at 3:27 pm
May 19, 2020, 3:21 pm
#700
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Hawaii
Programs: AA EXP, HA PL, Hilton 💎, Marriott Ti, Wyndham/Caesars 💎, Hertz PC
Posts: 343
Your suggestions reminds me of when we allowed smokers on the plane. Might as well permit ebola, or people with measles on the airplane too, NO?
I was thinking about the expectations about appropriate dress either on an airplane or being served in a store and don't hear people object to the need to wear clothes, shoes etc. when going to a store or getting on an airplane, why is this mask thing so difficult?
I was thinking about the expectations about appropriate dress either on an airplane or being served in a store and don't hear people object to the need to wear clothes, shoes etc. when going to a store or getting on an airplane, why is this mask thing so difficult?
https://www.theonion.com/area-man-pa...sti-1819571149
Also there's an alarming amount of people who think this is one big hoax involving Bill Gates, 5G antennas, vaccines, etc.
May 19, 2020, 6:27 pm
#701
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,775
Some anecdotal reports on Twitter about airlines and FA's being powerless to enforce the company mask policy when passengers remove masks or refuse to wear them.
Sadly, with no federal guidance, not wearing a mask will not rise to the level of smoking in the lavatory, nor could a federal air marshal do anything about it.
One FA I spoke with said that she will re-seat the anti-maskers to the window seats of the last 3 rows of the plane.
Sadly, with no federal guidance, not wearing a mask will not rise to the level of smoking in the lavatory, nor could a federal air marshal do anything about it.
One FA I spoke with said that she will re-seat the anti-maskers to the window seats of the last 3 rows of the plane.
May 19, 2020, 6:57 pm
#702
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: Continental Onepass, Hilton, Marriott, USAir and now UA
Posts: 6,439
If you want to protect yourself, you will not only need a mask that excludes viral particles (N99 better than N95), but you will also need to learn how to secure it to your face or take it off without contaminating yourself, or others. That will probably mean using gloves, changing clothes and learning how to remove those after removing your mask so you don't spread virus onto yourself. It actually is quite difficult to remove PPE properly.
The point I am trying to make is that except for those working directly with Covid infected patients in an acute care setting, use of simple masks is not for your safety but those around you. Just like herd immunity, if everyone is using a simple mask that suppresses droplet spread, then that plus hand-washing and distance will be quite effective in suppressing viral transmission of this disease.
The point I am trying to make is that except for those working directly with Covid infected patients in an acute care setting, use of simple masks is not for your safety but those around you. Just like herd immunity, if everyone is using a simple mask that suppresses droplet spread, then that plus hand-washing and distance will be quite effective in suppressing viral transmission of this disease.
Perhaps I did a poor job of explaining things. I will try again.
I do not think that you need a fancy mask to protect yourself in routine situations. That is exactly what I wrote (and I have bolded in my statement) and you confirmed with your post. We don't use anything other than surgical masks in clinic except when we are dealing with Covid + patients. Then the story changes and we follow CDC and hospital guidelines on PPE.
As I have said before, masks aren't for the wearer, but for those around the wearer. (BTW, nice post!)
May 19, 2020, 8:00 pm
#703
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: I 35 south bound, finally stopped
Programs: LT Plt, 4mm, *A GLD, burned out medical provider, executing our estate plan
Posts: 1,665
New Study, in hamsters, but they were selected because they resemble human enzyme receptors. Anyway, what I liked was that in the animals that contracted the virus despite having mask protection had a lower viral load. Flybitcoin posted this way upthread and I agree. If/when I get exposed, i want a low viral load.
https://www.sfgate.com/science/artic...o-15281491.php
https://www.sfgate.com/science/artic...o-15281491.php
May 19, 2020, 9:03 pm
#704
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: bay area, ca
Programs: UA plat, , aa plat, marriott LT titanium
Posts: 4,833
It would be awfully nice if people actually took the time to educate themselves (well I can dream/hallucinate) can't I? There is a BIG difference between intubating someone with the virus or other close in procedures that medical people engage in and what we experience in normal day to day life.
Besides the obvious issue of deniers/haters, etc. the biggest problem I see is that many people magically assume that if they're wearing a mask (or a single layer bandanna) it is no longer important to maintain social (that is physical) distancing. Sigh
Besides the obvious issue of deniers/haters, etc. the biggest problem I see is that many people magically assume that if they're wearing a mask (or a single layer bandanna) it is no longer important to maintain social (that is physical) distancing. Sigh
May 19, 2020, 10:00 pm
#705
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,668
Protecting oneself is one of the two reasons to wear normal masks. The notion that one needs a N95 to have significant protection is simply wrong, unless you are in a room with many COVID patients such as an ICU. The following graphs are from a recent UCSF presentation:
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