Jun 24, 2020, 6:06 am
Last edit by: NewbieRunner
Moderator announcement - June 23, 2020:
Flyertalk’s moderators generally take a hands-off approach when it comes to judging the accuracy of members’ statements. While that’s fine for travel debates, a pandemic is clearly a more serious issue.
A meta-analysis of 172 studies that looked at various interventions to prevent the transmission of COVID-19, SARS and MERS from an infected person to people close to them, published in The Lancet on June 1, found that mask wearing significantly reduces the risk of viral transmission.
Given the science, the forum moderators are disallowing any further posts that debate whether or not masks should be worn. Posts that do so will be deleted and members subject to discipline.
Please also note, we do not allow posting of conspiracy theories or racist terms used in place of Covid-19, coronavirus, etc.
- Coronavirus and Travel moderator team
Flyertalk’s moderators generally take a hands-off approach when it comes to judging the accuracy of members’ statements. While that’s fine for travel debates, a pandemic is clearly a more serious issue.
A meta-analysis of 172 studies that looked at various interventions to prevent the transmission of COVID-19, SARS and MERS from an infected person to people close to them, published in The Lancet on June 1, found that mask wearing significantly reduces the risk of viral transmission.
Given the science, the forum moderators are disallowing any further posts that debate whether or not masks should be worn. Posts that do so will be deleted and members subject to discipline.
Please also note, we do not allow posting of conspiracy theories or racist terms used in place of Covid-19, coronavirus, etc.
- Coronavirus and Travel moderator team
Coronavirus and masks/face coverings [Consolidated thread]
Jun 29, 2020, 9:08 pm
#1636
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: DSM
Programs: UA 1K, AA EP, DL PL, HH Dia, Marriott Gld, National Exp
Posts: 720
I just took a field trip to my garage and took pictures of 2 types of N95s with valve. The first one has a valve in the center, with a circular rubber flap. As you can see where I used a nail to demonstrate, when you exhale the valve opens and allows air and droplets to escape in all directions unimpeded (perhaps blocked a bit straight in front, but what goes up will come down). There’s no cloth or filter; when that flap opens it’s open. The second does have a bit of directionality but not much -- air/droplets can go out down/slightly forward and sideways.
These simply aren’t meant to prevent droplets from leaving the wearer’s face, which is fine for most dust/fume/industrial uses. Whether someone who makes money selling them calls that out or not.
I’m not saying there aren’t others that do have some sort of filter or cloth in addition to the valve (but I don’t understand that completely, since the whole mask is the filter), but virtually all of the ones I’ve seen people wearing are like above. As Flybitcoin says, a simple cloth or mask over it solves the problem.
These simply aren’t meant to prevent droplets from leaving the wearer’s face, which is fine for most dust/fume/industrial uses. Whether someone who makes money selling them calls that out or not.
I’m not saying there aren’t others that do have some sort of filter or cloth in addition to the valve (but I don’t understand that completely, since the whole mask is the filter), but virtually all of the ones I’ve seen people wearing are like above. As Flybitcoin says, a simple cloth or mask over it solves the problem.
This is the mask I bought for someone for another reason, and saw the inside is actually covered by fabric layers creating a pocket for an activated charcoal filter. So 2 or even 3 potential layers between breath and valve.
But as flybitcoin says, no one else will know that.
I did try it out, and while I liked how the mask fit, I thought it was hard to breathe thru, even without the filter in place.
Jun 30, 2020, 12:21 am
#1637
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: SIN
Programs: EK Blue, EY Guest, AA, QR
Posts: 288
No it has not. Asians used to wear masks for a variety of reasons, including being sick, pollution, not wearing makeup. The video few posts above was a random one showing people mention other reasons why they wear it
Jun 30, 2020, 1:42 am
#1638
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Between Seas
Posts: 4,716
At this point, anyone in a position of authority advocating non mask use should be criminally charged for endangerment of public health and the like. Same for any organizer of large indoors events with no masks, and any public official.
I am actually surprised that the medical associations have not demanded public health measures to curb the spread. I would have threatened strikes of the health care workers statewide to deal with this lunacy.
I am actually surprised that the medical associations have not demanded public health measures to curb the spread. I would have threatened strikes of the health care workers statewide to deal with this lunacy.
I believe you meant 'protests'. Service disruptions would undermine public-health trust, burden surveillance and law enforcement efforts, and induce extra media hysterics in hot and quiet zones alike.
Most importantly, such actions would socialize immediate harm to inpatient populations and most outpatients as well.
Jun 30, 2020, 9:57 am
#1639
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
The video did not say that they wore masks because they were forced to by their culture, which was the original post replied to days ago.
They do it out of intelligence and the calculation that benefits outweigh the risks.
Meanwhile, we are seeing quite the formula right now.
[Moderate to high baseline viral penetration] x [reduction in mask use in public] = Exponential case and hospitalization rise.
Jun 30, 2020, 10:32 am
#1640
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
Update on the passengers who shared a DXB-HKG flight with 26 Pakistani nationals who tested positive in Hong Kong....
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...g-kong-transit
Yeah, fresh air, a little HEPA filtration, and masks on board. So far, so good.
https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...g-kong-transit
The Dubai arrivals touched down in Hong Kong on June 21. But it took five days for the Airport Authority to inform health officials that the passengers had shared the flight with 26 people previously confirmed as infected, in a case highlighting communication issues between the organisations.
All of the marooned passengers have tested negative, as of Monday, although they are yet to pass the two-week incubation period for the virus.
All of the marooned passengers have tested negative, as of Monday, although they are yet to pass the two-week incubation period for the virus.
Jun 30, 2020, 12:23 pm
#1641
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 122
More than FlyBitcoin:
Asymptomatic Transmission, the Achilles’ Heel of Current Strategies to Control Covid-19
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2009758
Asymptomatic Transmission, the Achilles’ Heel of Current Strategies to Control Covid-19
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2009758
That's what @FlyBitcoin said
Last edited by NewbieRunner; Jul 1, 2020 at 4:11 pm Reason: Font size
Jun 30, 2020, 5:06 pm
#1642
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Paris & Scotland (Laird), "Suite on the World"
Programs: Hertz platinum, Bonvoy titanium , Delta flying colonel/platinum/MM, retired old men board member
Posts: 592
Jun 30, 2020, 7:14 pm
#1644
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,353
Yes, that's true, but FlyBitcoin's point was that those instructions are nonsensical for COVID-19, since with this virus you can be highly contageous without feeling any symptoms (yet or ever), thus the whole point of wearing masks is for people who "feel fine" to act as if they're sick and take precautions...like not having a valve that expels freely.
Jun 30, 2020, 7:48 pm
#1645
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
I appreciate the help of those who have to interpret my posts for others.
I will try harder to be clearer and use more characters, but it is nice to have a team of "explainers".
Makes me feel.... ummm.... presidential
I will try harder to be clearer and use more characters, but it is nice to have a team of "explainers".
Makes me feel.... ummm.... presidential
Jun 30, 2020, 11:14 pm
#1646
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2014
Programs: Top Tier with all 3 alliances
Posts: 11,647
1. (FlyBitcoin) did not hear/see that part
2. (FlyBitcoin) was obviously joking
3. (FlyBitcoin) did not mean it that way
4. What (FlyBitcoin) meant to say is...
5. (FlyBitcoin) was never briefed about that situation
Last edited by nk15; Jun 30, 2020 at 11:33 pm
Jul 1, 2020, 12:11 am
#1647
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BOS, YVR, ZRH
Programs: *G
Posts: 17,387
It is not that hard, they just have to choose and rotate from a drop down menu of standard responses:
1. (FlyBitcoin) did not hear/see that part
2. (FlyBitcoin) was obviously joking
3. (FlyBitcoin) did not mean it that way
4. What (FlyBitcoin) meant to say is...
5. (FlyBitcoin) was never briefed about that situation
1. (FlyBitcoin) did not hear/see that part
2. (FlyBitcoin) was obviously joking
3. (FlyBitcoin) did not mean it that way
4. What (FlyBitcoin) meant to say is...
5. (FlyBitcoin) was never briefed about that situation
Jul 1, 2020, 6:03 pm
#1648
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
Bought two samples of rubber and tested the full fixation version of https://www.fixthemask.com/
One was a roll from Amazon and the other was from Grainger.com searching for the product recommended on the plans.
The Grainger 12x12 sheets each yield 3 cut-outs and were clean and glossy. I bought the regular grade material as the military grade rolls were backordered.
The Amazon roll was rougher (like a pencil eraser) and left a bit of residue on my skin.
Both smelled like a tire store.
I wear a size 7 1/2 hat (so larger than average male) and I found the best fit was enlarging the download cut out plan to 110-115% on a photocopier. It was still pretty tight but the straps were thicker/sturdier
If you have a normal size head or want a very tight fit, then keep it actual size.
Trace loosely around the cut out. It's OK if the straps are a little thicker than the plan.
I used a sharpie to draw a faint line on the rubber. The rubber will destroy the tip of your sharpie after a few cutouts.
When cutting out the rubber, make sure every "corner" is actually gently rounded, leaving that area thicker. If you go to a corner and make a sharp angle with your scissors, the rubber might tear when stretched.
If the rubber gets nicked, some black vinyl electrical tape can repair it without losing too much flexibility.
I also tried clear silicone and it did not stretch enough and broke too easily.
Overall, it worked very well with much less leaking than a tightly tied surgical mask. It does not help much at the nose bridge, so make sure the metal band is bent to fit. The seal was a little better than an N95 with 2 elastic bands.
It doesn't get a paper surgical mask to N95 level for filtration, but for most casual encounters and flying, you don't need that level of filtration. You do need a better seal than an "ear loop" paper mask, and this does the job nicely and not that uncomfortably compared to the N95 with elastic bands that wrap behind the head.
Hope this helps.
One was a roll from Amazon and the other was from Grainger.com searching for the product recommended on the plans.
The Grainger 12x12 sheets each yield 3 cut-outs and were clean and glossy. I bought the regular grade material as the military grade rolls were backordered.
The Amazon roll was rougher (like a pencil eraser) and left a bit of residue on my skin.
Both smelled like a tire store.
I wear a size 7 1/2 hat (so larger than average male) and I found the best fit was enlarging the download cut out plan to 110-115% on a photocopier. It was still pretty tight but the straps were thicker/sturdier
If you have a normal size head or want a very tight fit, then keep it actual size.
Trace loosely around the cut out. It's OK if the straps are a little thicker than the plan.
I used a sharpie to draw a faint line on the rubber. The rubber will destroy the tip of your sharpie after a few cutouts.
When cutting out the rubber, make sure every "corner" is actually gently rounded, leaving that area thicker. If you go to a corner and make a sharp angle with your scissors, the rubber might tear when stretched.
If the rubber gets nicked, some black vinyl electrical tape can repair it without losing too much flexibility.
I also tried clear silicone and it did not stretch enough and broke too easily.
Overall, it worked very well with much less leaking than a tightly tied surgical mask. It does not help much at the nose bridge, so make sure the metal band is bent to fit. The seal was a little better than an N95 with 2 elastic bands.
It doesn't get a paper surgical mask to N95 level for filtration, but for most casual encounters and flying, you don't need that level of filtration. You do need a better seal than an "ear loop" paper mask, and this does the job nicely and not that uncomfortably compared to the N95 with elastic bands that wrap behind the head.
Hope this helps.
Jul 1, 2020, 6:13 pm
#1649
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2009
Programs: DL, UA, AA, VS
Posts: 5,226
Never heard of them but Scott Gottlieb said there are Level 3 surgical masks. I searched on Amazon and there are only two listings with level 3.
He said 95-96% for N95 and 67% for surgical masks.
N95 and KN95 available at accused.com, though they're expensive and supplies are still limited in the consumer channel.
He said 95-96% for N95 and 67% for surgical masks.
N95 and KN95 available at accused.com, though they're expensive and supplies are still limited in the consumer channel.
Jul 1, 2020, 6:49 pm
#1650
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: PHX
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, HHonrs Diamond
Posts: 1,336
AccuMed.com
They have some good quality masks. Never buy a KN95 with ear loops.
if you are getting really close to people while talking for extended periods of time, you should consider the N95's.
Riding dense public transportation? Probably.
More casual use with more distance and less talking... paper masks are fine if they FIT well and don't leak around the edges, like the fixthemask.com solutions.
They have some good quality masks. Never buy a KN95 with ear loops.
if you are getting really close to people while talking for extended periods of time, you should consider the N95's.
Riding dense public transportation? Probably.
More casual use with more distance and less talking... paper masks are fine if they FIT well and don't leak around the edges, like the fixthemask.com solutions.